Ep. 12 - Talkin' Fruit of the Spirit

Taylor and Sabrina are back in the circle as Small Group dives into a brand new, focused topic. In this episode, they are unpacking one of the most famous—and challenging—passages in the New Testament: Paul’s "Fruit of the Spirit" from Galatians 5. Which fruits come easily to us, and which ones feel like an uphill battle? How do we actually cultivate these attributes in daily life, rather than just talking about them? And most of all, what is the Fruit of the Spirit? 

Thank you for joining in Small Group, and please feel free to participate with us by sending your thoughts, questions, or ideas by commenting, messaging, or by email (goat.bear.lobster@gmail.com). You can also reach out, and find out more about us, at our website: SmallGroupPodcast.wordpress.com. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:37

Ladies and gentlemen, I'm doing this for my kids. This is Small Group Podcast. I'm Benjamin Maxwell. I'm Taylor.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Sabrina.

SPEAKER_05 0:49

And we're back at full strength tonight. Taylor and Sabrina. So glad that we're all back together again. I've missed us.

SPEAKER_03 0:59

It's been a while. I feel like it's been a few weeks, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:04

Yeah. It's good to be back. I'm glad we're here.

unknown 1:07

King's all here.

SPEAKER_05 1:10

I had to be moving on. I feel like we've been in a in a couple of broad topics for a while. And now we are ready to get focused. I get a little more zeroed in. But before we do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Jingle bell, jingle, yay, jingle good for you.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

All right. So today's topic is about the fruit of the spirit. So the icebreaker question is what is your favorite vegetable?

SPEAKER_03 1:46

That's so funny. I was immediately thinking, okay, what's my favorite fruit? Um question. Probably for me, Brussels sprouts. I love take. Wait, no. I I feel like they're so underrated. There's different ways that you can do them. I love putting balsalmic on them. I love like pan frying them. Recently, we made this dish where I got this off of Top Chef. In some of the competitions on this like cooking show, they they like share one ingredient. So it could be like mango or fig. And they asked the people competing to make a like a four-course meal incorporating that ingredient. And so we chose fig because my mother-in-law Taylor's mom, she gifted us like bags full of black mission fig. And I made this like amazing. We both made this amazing Brussels sprout fig dish. It was so good. So yeah, I think that you can do a lot with Brussels sprouts. Don't be a hater, Lacey.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Okay, have you ever had Fireflies Brussels sprouts?

SPEAKER_03 3:05

No, but I've heard great things about Firefly. I don't think I've ever been.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

Okay. I do not eat Brussels sprouts unless they're from Firefly. They I don't know. They put some magic on them.

SPEAKER_03 3:16

I feel that like the fancier restaurants do such a good job with Brussels sprouts.

SPEAKER_05 3:22

I was gonna say, I wouldn't go so far as to say like Brussels sprouts across the board because I'm not crazy. Like if you deep frown them or deep frown or like what you're talking about, like ball stomach vinegar. Okay, I can go for them. Yeah, they're not like completely off the table. Pun intended.

SPEAKER_02 3:40

Alright, alright. What's everyone else's favorite?

SPEAKER_08 3:45

Tell you about this vegetable called a potato. Roll time. That's biblical, ladies. I I don't know. I I guess if I was to categorize green versus non-green, I I I am a I'm a pretty big fan of green beans. We do green beans here and there. There's a green bean recipe that we have with shallots and lemongrass paste, and it has like soy fried onion. It is kind of like an Asian fusion-y kind of green bean thing, and it is it's quite good. Yeah, I like green beans a lot. Green bean casserole.

SPEAKER_05 4:37

Man, you can't go wrong with green bean casserole.

SPEAKER_08 4:40

When it's good, it really hits. I agree. So I uh green beans are probably mine. I I also do really like carrots. I there's something to be said for being able to just take a bite out of something. Like you washed it and you can just eat it, you know? Like you can't eat it. Yeah, you can eat meat too. Yeah, yeah. But I love that. So what about y'all?

SPEAKER_01 5:02

I love zucchini.

SPEAKER_08 5:04

Zucchini.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

And I can make like really yummy zucchini muffins.

SPEAKER_08 5:09

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

And like you can't taste the zucchini at all, but it's just so good. But I feel like that's controversial too.

SPEAKER_05 5:17

Yeah, because that's where she and I differ. Because I'm not big on zucchini.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

So when we first got married, I had a list on our fridge of the vegetables that he would eat and the veget and the vegetables I would eat. And so that was how I would meal plan was I would pick one from each list because we we don't eat the same.

SPEAKER_05 5:38

I'm sticking with potatoes. I don't know why you cave so quick. All day, every day, potatoes, potatoes. Six of your guns. That's it.

SPEAKER_08 5:45

You can't go wrong. There's there's a guy, there's a guy who I think is from Argentina. He's he's on one of those chef shows, and he was famous for note like doing this whole thing where he's like, you don't know potatoes like you know, like I know potatoes. Like this guy will do potatoes 15 different ways. You know, here's this presentation, that presentation, they're grated or they're like, you know, roasted, or they're all gropped. Oh, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_05 6:17

All these different favorite all these different potato recipes. It used to be mashed potatoes and gravy. Yeah. It still is, but it's like so I did a diet a couple years ago, a hardcore diet, like you know, uh Taylor and I were talking about earlier off there, but I ended up losing like 70-something pounds, but it was hardcore, like really cut out everything. And it it's weird. I was on it for maybe a year, over a year, and so you cut out a lot of things, including the starches and potatoes and stuff. So it started to change my taste buds a little bit. Like I've never had a sweet tooth, but then like halfway through, like six months into that diet or something, I was really starting to crave sweets and everything. And mashed potatoes and gravy was another thing that changed. Like it just did not hit the same way it did before. It's really weird how that how that happens and plays out. But I mean, I I haven't met a potato I didn't like yet. Yeah. Hash browns. Yeah. I mean, you dice them up and fry them to death. You can't mess that up. Cheese, cheese, scattered, covered, chunked, and diced. I'm I'm gonna change my vegetable to cheese. I I'm all over, I'm all on cheese. You put cheese on anything. I mean, look at broccoli.

unknown 7:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 7:33

Can't touch broccoli without cheese. It's a it's a vessel for cheese. Well, uh, real quick, I want to shout out and quick hello to our our I was about to say royalty and loyalty at the same time. Our loyal small group members, Panama City, Panama City Beach, obviously. They're in strong competition of who is gonna be number one listener. Eva, Alabama. Shout out to my my folks back home, everybody listening, Falkville, Alabama, Jacksonville, Florida, and of course, Ashburn, Virginia, our home away from home. That's where I will retire one day because of those folks. Cleveland, Alabama, Montgomery, Alabama, Dothan, Alabama, Birmingham. Alabama's tearing it up. They uh we're you know, we're getting around all over the world. Japan, thanks to Taylor. He's been doing a lot of a lot of viral marketing in Japan, and uh small group is taking off there. But the folks in Alabama are stepping up their game, and so we're just glad to have everybody from all over the world joining us, joining in the small group. This is this is for everybody. And as usual, you know, you guys send us your messages. We really want to get all of you that we can involved in the small group. And so uh you can message us and contact us at the description in the in the podcast or in the however you're listening to whatever platform you can find all the details there. As Lacey was saying tonight, we're gonna dig into the fruit of the spirit. Real excited about this one. I'm all stuck on vegetables now. I gotta switch to fruit of the spirit. I don't want to assume knowledge. Anybody that doesn't already know about the fruit of the spirit, it's found in Galatians. It proceeds. Yeah, it's Paul writing to the Galatians. He just got done talking about works of the flesh, which is something we're gonna get into in an in the next episode, probably. But tonight, just gonna focus on the fruit of the spirit, which is found Galatians 5, starting verse 22. Sabrina, you wanna hit that?

unknown 9:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:54

So the verse says, starting off with verse 22, but the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law.

SPEAKER_06 10:14

So as we dive right in. Alright, so before we dive right into these questions, we got some questions here about the fruit of the spirit. Any overall thoughts? anybody?

SPEAKER_05 10:31

I know the I I think you guys were talking about fruit of the spirit, something that's come up quite a bit in y'all's experience here lately.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

First off, the fruit of the spirit is not a coconut. I just want to get that out of the way.

SPEAKER_05 10:44

And get that stuck in my head for the rest of the episode.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

So you're welcome.

SPEAKER_05 10:48

I'll be chiming in with the fruit of the spirit, not a coconut.

SPEAKER_03 10:51

So where did okay, I get I don't know why, but I just heard that song through third and fifth graders at our church and they learned it at camp. So did you also learn it through our church or is it a song?

SPEAKER_05 11:05

In a roundabout way, I learned it through Gabby, our our daughter. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

Who probably learned it at church. But yes, I I learned it through through our child children's ministry. Yes. And it so yeah, but between that, well, and she also sings that at school. So we're big fans of it. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 11:22

Yeah, I was just gonna say it's come up a lot. So Lacey and I are with the children working with the children's ministry, and our next lesson for the month of June is gonna be on fruit of the spirit, and I'm really excited about that. And then Taylor and I in the last I guess few months, we led kind of a one-off class on the fruit of the spirit with our youth at our church, and that was really great. And so I I love when people at our church have said this in the past. It's interesting when things come up in the in the number three. And just to say that like sometimes when things come up in kind of a repetitive nature, I try and really take notice of that. And so um us talking about on the podcast today, I feel like it's um that's happening, which is really cool.

SPEAKER_05 12:12

Um, just real quick, I because that to that point, I have this I don't know what to call it, the mindset, I guess. Uh kind of similar to what you're talking about, one thing like seeing patterns and everything. I have I I have I'm still working this out, but I I like to call them my map verses. I love the verses that just give you all of these attributes and lists like divine nature, uh which I bring up time and time again because it's one I'm heavily in right now. Second Peter 1, 4 through 7, divine nature, you know, a supplementary faith, virtue, virtue, knowledge, and so on. James 3, 17, wisdom from above is pure, peaceable, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy, good fruits, impartial, sincere. James 12 through 2 through 4. Trials are a source of joy, so in that trials lead to testing of faith, produces endurance work complete and perfect, lacking nothing. And then Galatians, I could go on and on if I won't. And then fruit of the spirit's one of those. I I call them my map verses, just because I like how they lay out yeah, especially Peter, when he lays it out like faith, supplement to faith, he kind of adds a little hierarchy to it. And then you have Paul here with fruit of the spirit, you know, love, joy, peace, patience. Because I don't know, I I like how it it simplifies a lot of things. And for me to to be able to just focus on like love, focus on joy, and then focus on peace, and then you can really turn these these lists of attributes into like a daily routine of I'm gonna focus on my faith, then I'm gonna supplement into that virtue. It just adds a little for me in the way that I think it it just adds a little extra. But uh by the way, I I call them for until I come up with a better name of map verses. So fruit of the spirit is one of those. So this is something I'll probably get more into in in the works of the flesh, I think it becomes more it's gonna be very much more crucial, you know, when you I'm not gonna go Greek word by Greek word, don't worry, ladies. But I think looking at the definitions and the descriptions of each word, like love is agape, everybody knows most of the time it is it's when it's used in this context is agape. But uh I you know, and I can skip over the Greek and just go straight to the what are the synonyms? How is this word described? Because some of them some of them in our vernacular today, when isolated, can be can kind of lose a little bit of its spark, I guess.

SPEAKER_06 15:06

Goodness. Goodness seems like a very broad in our vernacular and our in our thinking today. You know, like what is good, what is goodness. Anyway I was hoping nothing. I was waiting for you to jump on in there.

SPEAKER_08 15:26

Well I yeah, I I think one thing when I think of you described it as being a map verse.

SPEAKER_06 15:34

When I think of verses like this, I think of I think of how it's it's easy for us to I think have clouded vision or to get lost in in all of the noise of your daily walk, your daily life.

SPEAKER_08 15:56

And in the process of striving and seeking God in the way that we move about our day. Having, like you said, the the map with you, these these core principles of like you know, I know that I can aim at love. I you know, I don't whether or not I can do the assignment at work with X amount of efficiency or get the perfect outcome on the test that I'm studying for, or have the result that I want in whatever it may be, whatever the uh the you know the concrete thing that you're going for is, you know, that can be a hard ask in life. Sometimes we'll disappoint you and and we often, you know, I think we get lost in this in this move towards pursuing worldly things. These map verses that you're describing that kind of anchor us though, I can pursue love. I know what that looks like. Um I know what it looks like to be patient with another person, with my wife, with my friend, with someone that upsets me. It's just reassuring to know that scripture gives us these clear these moments where it's very clear what is expected of us and what we can do exactly as disciples of of Christ. You know, I think another thing that is always think of when I think of this verse is something that our pastor has said, which I think is really wise and communicates something about spiritual growth that is insightful on his part, which was when he said that when we think of the fruit of the spirit that we tend to exemplify it's the it's the or it's the fruit of the spirit that we don't tend to exemplify, that when we're exemplifying it, we know we're growing and maturing and deepening our spiritual journey. So for example, I struggle with self-control a lot of the time. It's one of the fruit of the spirit that just that's the challenge for me. Preach. So and that that looks different ways for different people, but that's one where like if I know that I'm exhibiting self-control against my my own desire, denying myself and doing what God asks of me, not what I desire of myself, I know then that I'm deepening my relationship with God because I'm able to say I used to not be very good at exemplifying this fruit. I see progress, I'm moving in a better direction, I'm exemplifying it more. The Spirit is working within me. He is bringing about some change in my life that I can like see and know is real and true because I'm more loving or I am more patient or I am more faithful or whatever this fruit is. And I I love I just I love it. I love it too. I think it's great.

SPEAKER_05 19:12

One more thing about this, Rick, with the map verses, is uh one thing that I've I'm going back to what Spring is talking about when you're seeing patterns, I like to I saw I I've literally mapped them out in the Greek word because I it's like for example, pistis p pistis. I'm sorry, I everybody cringes when I say that Greek word. Faith in it it's in the divine nature, it's the starting uh point of the divine nature, but it's here in the fruit of the spirit, but it shows up as faithfulness. So what I like to do is go to the original Greek words and and see where the overlap is, what shows up love, faithfulness, self-control, all three of those show up in Peter's divine nature in the second letter. Peace.

SPEAKER_06 19:56

Peace is also the armor of God, which is another map quote unquote map verse that I like to look at.

SPEAKER_05 20:06

It's also in James's w wisdom from above, it's included in that. But just looking at those overlaps, what what's repetitive and those three in particular love, faithfulness, self-control, those three are all re repeated in many places. And I I don't know, I don't know quite what to make of all that just yet, but it's just FYI. I seeing like what you're talking about, Taylor, you know, it's like you you especially when you get overwhelmed, you try to isolate things down to its basic form and and really focus on those basic things. Like you know you can you know what love is. Well let's start there and and whatever. So another way to do it is hey, love is repeated here and here and here and here. I'm really gonna focus on that one. Self-control here, here, and here, and I'm with you. Self-control whenever whenever the the talk of fruit of the spirit comes up and it's like you gotta pick one to focus on or whatever, my mind always goes to self-control. I feel like that is the low-hanging fruit, but so now let me ask you this. Why does Paul call it fruit singular instead of fruits? I think is a common I I'm guilty of it too. I think I say fruits. Same with Psalms, by the way. I say Psalms and it's Psalm a book of Psalm, I think technically.

SPEAKER_06 21:36

Yeah. But yeah, here Peter calls it fruit singular, although he lists multiple. Yeah. Anybody want to take on that one?

SPEAKER_03 21:47

Yeah, I have just like point. And it's to your point of hierarchy. I don't I mean, I don't know. Maybe there I don't know about this, but I don't know that there's a reason for the order other than Love coming first, you know. Like, I don't I don't know about that, but I will say one thing that comes to mind is the greatest commandment love God and love others more than you would love yourself, and that gets brought up a lot about like focus on love and then the other things will will come. Yeah, and so I feel like when we think about the fruit singular of the spirit, I see that as love, and then through love, all of the other fruit joy, peace, patience, kindness, etc., will all flow from focusing on love. So that's where I went.

unknown 22:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:40

I'm I'm glad you brought that up too, because I I found that very interesting where Paul starts from love. Peter ends in love in his divine nature. You know, you start with faith, and then you go through virtue, knowledge, self-control, and then he ends on love. So I always found that kind of interesting. But the way Peter does, he does kind of structure it in a hierarchical type way, whereas Paul just says, here, here's fruit.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

Okay, for those of y'all listening, in case you haven't figured out, I'm the dumb one at this tale. Not true. Don't say that about my sister.

SPEAKER_05 23:21

Um yeah, don't say that about Sabrina's sister.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

Um, but in my mind, it it's kind of like, you know, like there's an apple, but there's like a hundred different kinds of apples, but so it it's just like in my mind, it's kind of like an apple tree, but it's you know, there's all kind of different kinds of apples. So that's that's just kind of where my brain went with that.

SPEAKER_05 23:46

I didn't realize there were so many apples until we had a three-year-old. And when I went to pick up apples, wow, there are many apples. Did not realize that I thought there were red and green. Apparently, there's some more.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

There's a lot. Honey crisp is where it's at.

SPEAKER_05 24:01

So yeah. That one always sounds the most delicious. I think that's the one I usually grab. You got a flavor, you got a texture, honey and crisp.

SPEAKER_08 24:11

It's just enticing.

SPEAKER_03 24:12

I really like that metaphor because I see I mean, I don't know how you're envisioning it, but when you said that, it made me think, okay, so we are the tree in this metaphor, and then the fruit of the spirit that is being produced out of us are all the same fruit. It's like we can't produce as if we're the tree, we can't produce different types of fruit. I don't know. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 24:34

There's red, there's green, and there's knowledge of good and evil. How many more do we mean? Uh uh to the to this point, and it might seem like okay, what's the big deal? It's fruit, not fruits. In our quick little language fun thing for me and Taylor. So in our language, I find so fascinating words with double meanings, or at least multiple meanings. Holy Spirit's one. Because and I and I don't realize uh just from my conversations with m multiple people about this, I don't know how many people stop to realize. Like when you say if you isolate spirit, if I just say spirit, it can mean a ghost, like a apparition. In our in our everyday modern English vernacular, an apparition, a ghost, ghostbusters kind of thing. Or spirit is like in the manner of you know, like in the spirit of Christmas, in the spirit of Halloween, in the spirit of whatever, in the spirit of Thanksgiving. So that in our modern vernacular has so if you apply that to the Holy Spirit, when I say Holy Spirit, I can take for granted what when I say Holy Spirit, I'm thinking I may be thinking apparition. Whereas and I can take for granted that when I say it out loud, Taylor, you're thinking, uh and I'm just this is an example, I don't know what you're thinking, but I'm thinking apparition and when when I say it, you may be in your mind thinking in the manner of in the spirit of. And I think that's especially true here with fruit and fruits. I don't think you're we're losing anything. At least it paints a nice little picture. I my mind still goes to fruit, like a basket of fruit. But thinking of it in a singular and the one Greek word I'm gonna use for this this episode, carpos here in this context. Now carpos can mean fruit, like actual fruit from a tree or something, but here in this context, it's seen as referring to a deed, action, or result.

SPEAKER_06 26:45

Like the fruit of your fruit of your labor. Fruit of yeah. It's it's the result, the resulting action of the spirit.

SPEAKER_05 26:59

So, you know, what do we mean when we say spirit? Are we talking holy spirit? Just some summarize that a little bit. I think uh divine spirit is what that word is referring to in the in the original context is a divine spirit. The fruit, the result of the divine spirit are is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.

SPEAKER_06 27:29

I don't know, I find that a fascinating I love coming across words like that that could have double meaning.

SPEAKER_05 27:36

And especially in a spiritual context, I think it's very important.

SPEAKER_03 27:39

Yeah, I don't know how to reply to that, because I will say that I always I always read that and understood that, and I'm not saying that, I'm I don't know, but I always read that as like fruit of the spirit, and I always assumed Holy Spirit. And then I thought in my mind I'm thinking, you know, like God, because we believe in the Trinity. And so when I'm thinking about, okay, like what are symptoms, what are results of God when we receive Him and follow Him, well then the love, joy, peace, etc. are examples of of God in us. So I don't yeah, I never thought of it that way.

SPEAKER_05 28:20

And I know I said one one Greek word, but like I should just throw this one out there too. The the spirit there in Galatians, so it's talking about when Galatians 5, 22, but the fruit of the spirit spirit is pneuma, which is a very uh I think uh well known, it's up there with agape, I believe. In general context and just overall description, like in a general this is what it's describing, spirit ghost. But those words today, when you say spirit or ghost, going back to what I was talking about, could have multiple meanings, is it in the spirit of and then it also says ghosts, and then uh I believe if I remember correctly, in this context, you know, it also refers to overall in general the wind breath, the spirit, the vital principles by which the body is animated. But I do believe that it here it's talking it's describing a divine spirit, a divine breath, wind being maybe.

SPEAKER_06 29:26

I don't know, I may be stretching there, but anyway. Uh real quick, I'm just curious, because I asked Lacey this. When you say Holy Spirit, do you think more along the lines of ghost or manner?

SPEAKER_05 29:43

Like in the manner of, or do you think and I'm just curious for each one, each person's what what where does your mind go when you hear Holy Spirit?

SPEAKER_06 29:54

When I hear Holy Spirit, I I tend to think of presence.

SPEAKER_05 29:59

So more along the lines of a like an actual apparition being kind of type.

SPEAKER_06 30:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:06

Ghost, holy ghost.

SPEAKER_08 30:08

Yeah, I mean apparition, maybe I would hesitate to use that word in the way that like personally that I think of him because apparition, I mean the word itself it has the the the connotation of to appear within it. And so no, no, I mean it no, I I don't I don't think it's a poor choice of words. It's just more just that I think he is in a way m mysterious beyond a mere appearance or maybe not knowable merely in his appearance. I think of of just that presence in the same way that I think of like when I'm not with you, but I'm thinking of you, I have a certain conception or feeling about Ben, right? I know what Ben's presence feels like in the room, you know. Magical. Magical. Maybe it's maybe it's more like describe it in sound, it'd be like maybe he's more like that. I don't know. I I do think that there's something very I don't know. It it's it's it's com it's complicated to try and put language to describing him. The things that we can say, I I think that are clear that that he is present all present and with us always, wherever we are, that he dwells within us. We know this through scripture. We know that he empowers us, comforts us, gives us words of wisdom. Whether or not I I view him as being some kind of like ghostly apparition or more like a like you described, the spirit a manner, like the spirit of the season or the spirit.

SPEAKER_05 32:07

A little bit of both. I was just yeah. I'm not choosing aside or and picking a side on either one. I just I think it's something to to think about and how we perceive notions like especially like Holy Spirit and consider all of the different kind of texts. But anyway, I didn't mean to get so bogged down on that.

SPEAKER_08 32:26

No, yeah. I don't know if you guys had any other thoughts about it. I I just kind of rambled there.

SPEAKER_01 32:31

No, no, you're good, Taylor. No, thank you. Um, no, my to get on my level kind of thing, I kind of picture the Holy Spirit kind of like Jiminy Cricket, where like or you remember like in like the Tom and Jerry cartoons where like you had like the angel on one shoulder and like the devil on the other, kind of thing. Kind of like that, where it's like like he's trying to lead you and he's trying to whisper in your ear, but we don't always listen to him. So, but that that's just kind of how I kind of picture him is that like like he's always there, but I don't always I actually think that's a really good description, really, especially cricket, yeah, angel and devil, and angel and devil, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 33:20

Well, and and as we get further into this, and especially when you compare to the works of the the desires of the flesh, which Paul just comes off of when you're going into fruit of the spirit, it's a duel dueling desire, is it a divine desire or divine uh a desire of the spirit, or is it a div a desire of the flesh?

SPEAKER_06 33:42

And but more on that later. We'll stay tuned. Coming down the line. Which fruit comes naturally, most naturally to you of all of them? Okay coconuts.

SPEAKER_01 33:59

Yeah, I feel like I don't know, like back to like the apple analogy. I feel like it depends on the season. And there but also I feel like like God gives us different spiritual gifts. And so I I think that we I don't know, that there are certain things that we're just naturally more drawn to, I guess.

unknown 34:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

So as an Enneagram nine, I I love peace. I desire peace, I crave peace. But I think the one that comes easiest to me, it might be joy. Yeah, I would say the same for you, really.

SPEAKER_08 34:41

So you're very joyful.

SPEAKER_01 34:43

Well, it's just uh so no, Ben's laughing because my mama's name is Joy.

SPEAKER_05 34:48

Again, it goes back to the context.

SPEAKER_01 34:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:52

Do I want her to be joyful? Yes. Do I want her to be joyful? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 34:59

But yeah, just my like the the desire that God has placed in my heart for this life, I believe, is just to make people just a little bit happier.

unknown 35:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

And so that is just like my goal for you know, anytime, like every interaction, every person I meet, I just want to make them just feel just a tiny bit happier.

SPEAKER_06 35:22

I love that.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

Me too. But um, and I I feel this is gonna sound really bad, but like I I kindness kind of comes in.

SPEAKER_06 35:34

So I feel like being a nine kindness would be your go-to.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

So so no, because like I feel like there there are there are certain people that like it's it's easy to be kind. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 35:46

And message received hint.

SPEAKER_03 35:49

No, that's true for everyone, I think.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

There's certain people, it it's easy to be kind. And and and again, it it's it's seasonal, it's situational, like where it if I'm like super stressed out and it's like I I don't have the mental capacity to be kind right now.

SPEAKER_05 36:04

But I'm gonna think that's where patience comes in too.

SPEAKER_01 36:08

Yeah, but like there's some people that like it requires a certain amount of energy to be kind. And then sometimes that's gonna sound really crazy right now. It kind of becomes a game where it's like, I wonder if I can really kill these people with kindness, kind of thing. It becomes it becomes a game, like where it's like, no, I'm going to outkind you. Like uh like I don't care how meme you are to me, I'm going to be kind. And I love it. I think it's good.

SPEAKER_05 36:39

She's the one in Chick-fil-A where they go, my pleasure. No, my pleasure. You try to be the last one to say it.

SPEAKER_01 36:44

I'm that great person.

SPEAKER_03 36:46

That's I love it. That okay. I said this before to you, Lacey. I've told Taylor this just one-on-one, me and him working with you at the children's ministry. I feel like I've gotten so much more of an understanding of your joy. Like, we could be everyone distressed out or overwhelmed, and you are just joyful through and through.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

It's like, you know, I think that jingle now, jingle, yay, jingle good for you.

SPEAKER_04 37:17

Is that is that what you're trying to describe?

SPEAKER_03 37:19

Yeah, yeah, totally. I think when I first met you guys, I wondered, like, hmm, is she for real this way all the time? Because that's how you come off. And working in the children's ministry, I'm like, yes, it's true. Like through and through, Lacey is joyful. And I I mean, you're human, like I know that I'm sure you struggle with other emotions sometimes that are not joy, but mainly hungry.

SPEAKER_01 37:42

Well, but it's just funny because with the children's ministry, I am in a room with all type A women, and I'm over here type C, just hanging out, chilling. I'm here for the party. Like, just happy to be here, guys. We need you, happy to be good. We need you. But no, I enjoy I'm just so happy to be in that room and happy to be a part of it. And just she's like, yeah, whatever y'all need, I'm here for it.

SPEAKER_03 38:08

We do work with a lot of skillful great women. Um, but yeah, I resonate with you saying joy so much and kindness. Uh um, I wrote okay, so I was talking to Taylor about this recently. I feel like my fruit of the spirit that comes naturally is so legalistic, and I which I don't know why it's that way, but something to do with my personality. Yeah, for sure. So the top two that come to mind, the first one is self-control, which I I'm not saying that I mastered.

SPEAKER_07 38:44

Okay, sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 38:44

I'm not saying that I've mastered self-control. I definitely have a lot of growth in self-control. That being said, I think that I noticed within myself, and I've asked Taylor before even saying anything, and he's agreed that self-control is one that may come a little bit more natural than others. I think like even before following God, like really intentionally, I I had some practices when Taylor and I first met of not like a strict grocery decision making, but definitely like more on the healthy side and intentional side. I'm someone who likes measuring things and being able to see like things in my mind that where I can visualize the quantity and and re and reason with it. So for example, I haven't always been this way, but I'm very strict with my caffeine intake. I measure and make sure that I stick to 200 milligrams of caffeine or under per day because that's the recommended amount. I'm someone that is like strict with my sugar intake. Just like all these things that I think that like even before following God, self-control was something that Debra mastered, but maybe it's come a little bit easier um compared to other people.

SPEAKER_05 40:06

What I'm hearing you say is you're really good at self-control until Taylor came along.

SPEAKER_08 40:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:11

Well, kind of with food, because he's a big foodie. And I am too. Yeah, he's all like the almond milk. He's like, no, whole milk 100%.

SPEAKER_08 40:23

Or not do an almond milk. I'm not an almond milk kind of either.

SPEAKER_02 40:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 40:27

I've very well I could derail this.

SPEAKER_05 40:30

I don't want to go off on the almond milk as you for straight.

SPEAKER_02 40:32

No, it's actually not great.

SPEAKER_05 40:34

I feel like I'm the same way with Lacey. I feel like she was so much more joyful than what you Sabrina, what you're experiencing now. You should have seen her before I got a hold of her because and it scares me to death because the same thing that the same thing that you were talking about is what attracted me to her. And because I know like I want to be joyful. I want to be that kind and sincere and pure at heart. And so I want, you know, I'm hoping she rubs off on me. My biggest fear is I'm rubbing off on her. And I feel like the joyful level maybe it has dipped because of my it's a little, it scares me because I don't want to mess her up.

SPEAKER_03 41:09

It's a balance. Um, but yeah, no, I know what you mean. I think like I asked Taylor what fruit of the spirit does he think that I've helped him with. We've we've asked that question to each other, and he has said self-control. So I understand what you're saying about Lacey and Joy. The second one I would say again, it kind of goes into a legalistic, like it just makes me feel like I'm very legalistic, but it's faithfulness. I am a very loyal person. I feel like I've struggled with like trust issues, which I'm not like I really don't like that about myself. I'm trying to be better. But once you've kind of come into and gotten through my trust issues, I'm very loyal to the people in my circle, which by the way is both of you. And we've made it. Not to, I don't know, I didn't mean to be kind of egotistical about that. Um, but I yeah, I think that like that's that's definitely helped me with my walk with God, faithfulness and self-control as far as like reading scripture and praying. And Taylor's also really helped me with those practices, but um, yeah, those are the two I'd say naturally.

SPEAKER_06 42:24

Taylor. You got any that come naturally to you.

SPEAKER_08 42:29

You know, I I think for me, I really don't struggle that much with patience. I tend to be a pretty patient person. Sabrina's nodding.

SPEAKER_03 42:44

Yeah, patience is one that he's helped me with because I am not very patient at all, and Taylor is very patient, at least in uh our world.

SPEAKER_08 42:52

I I have you know, I I think like the caveat with with this talking about fruit of the spirit is that all of us have struggles in exemplifying fruit of the spirit in one way or the other, regardless of which one we're talking about. That's a great point to remember. But I think, you know, so I have moments of impatience, but in general, patience is one that I I think I do pretty pretty good job on just understanding that the internal world of another person is so unknowable to me. You know, I can you know, I can get frustrated with a person in front of me in line at the drive-thru or at the grocery store, whatever it may be. It accomplishes nothing but making me upset internally, maybe escalating and now other people are upset. I can, you know, huff and puff, I can you know verbalize my frustration, and I am frustrated, but like just that moment of like stepping back. And I think for me, like the patience, patience is a fruit, cultivating that is. really I think a matter of of of pause taking. Yeah. Like taking pauses to react. And that's another kind of breakthrough I think with with with thinking about fruit of the spirit is that like they are cultivatable, I guess. Like you like they're not just these abstractions of like love people. Like yes that's true, but like what does it mean to love people? And it's like, well go to the gospels. There are countless examples of what it looks like to put love into practice. Or what is what is patience look like you know well what does Christ teach us about patience? Right. How much patience did did Christ have to have with the apostles when Thomas asks you know until I put my hands in your in your wounds I won't believe and what is the patience that Christ demonstrates ultimate patience. Yeah. Right? It's patience to the point of like unconditional unconditionally I will show you and be faithful to you and follow through on my promise to not leave you and forsake you even though you doubt me I will show up for you I will continue to love you and and be by your side. That's like the so if that's the exemplar of patience then the least that I can do in my daily mostly meaning meaningless like you know encounter at the grocery store which is not that big of a deal is just pause take a breath be patient with someone when I would want that from from them if I were going through a bad day or having a hard time. So patience is one that I I don't I don't struggle with that one as much. I just I tend to be kind of just like easygoing with people and yeah.

SPEAKER_05 45:49

I want to emphasize that one of the first points you made there is you know when we again we're going to get into works of the flesh but when you think of the the converse to this the fruit of the spirit the the the works of the flesh sin nature you know and I think a lot we can all because I've heard it over and over again I think we all agree that you know we all struggle with different sins. One sin might be you know harder for me than it is for you or whatever. It's harder to remember that in the moment you know because that's I think a lot of where our judgmental nature comes from stems from forgetting our own sin nature. But it's the same I think is true here with the spirit you know like you were talking about I think just like we struggle with different sins I think we might struggle with different fruit of the spirit and oh absolutely and even as you were describing those it's hard to sometimes split these apart they flow together self-control and patience you know they they it they go together so seamlessly that it's it's hard to really kind of break them apart sometimes.

SPEAKER_08 46:58

Can't have one without the other almost you know it's interesting that you say that and I think that is maybe one way to read the the answer to your question earlier about why do we say fruit instead of fruits because in a way he is undivided right he being the spirit of God. He he he remains wholly one the spirit of Christ which dwells within us is of one kind of one nature if you will it is the spirit of Christ is and in in in in the way that he remains perfectly unified in his nature the works and the good things the good fruit that he produces within us are that they all share in the same substance so like what you're describing Ben so like if you encounter someone at the grocery store and they're upsetting you because of something that they've done you now have you're presented with an option you can say I will pause okay now I've exhibited patience and I've controlled my emotion that self-control and I'm acting in a loving way by restraining my tongue and controlling my anger. So now you've like what you said you've described this overpouring of goodness from Christ's spirit dwelling in you and motivating you to act in a Christlike way but yeah it's kind of there is this impossibility of of parsing and dividing it into these neat little categories because it is all just him. It is his it is his good his good spirit his good works that he is bringing forth in us.

SPEAKER_05 48:48

Along those lines it's like we think of the fruit of the spirit kind of like something to attribute or something to aspire to yeah but it's it's more than that you because it it is by by thinking and focusing on God by dying to self and live for Christ you're by doing that that produces and results in these attributes. So in a way yes you you can isolate them like you're talking about focus on one and or you know but even in doing that you're focusing on God you're focusing on you're dying to self and and focus on Christ. To answer that question though which which fruit comes m more most naturally to you none of them for me I don't there's bits and pieces of each one that come here and there but I don't know that there's a single one that man I'm really natural naturally drawn to that but which fruit stretches you the most rewind um I don't think you give yourself enough credit.

SPEAKER_01 50:01

I think yours is goodness I think that you like God has given you that gift of goodness you are are a very like this is right this is wrong and he always always tries to do the right thing no matter what and he gets you try you try and that that is what what you strive for and that that's what you try to be intentional about and he also gets really annoyed when people do not do the the right thing. Yeah and so I I think that you're just just good just pure good.

SPEAKER_05 50:42

Hold that thought because my answer to the next one's gonna get me in a lot of trouble which which fruit stretches you the most right now the only one I could say was Joy. So okay I love my mother in law absolutely love my mother in law her name is Joy. And and I can rag her we give each other a hard time so I there's I this isn't me just being absolutely rude or whatever because this is just this is our relationship we tease one another. And I'm always like I'm always kind of asking Matthew how do how do I get less joy in my life? Where's that sir? Love you mama joy but yeah that that's the one that stretches me the most fun fact real quick too I'll add this to so the when you think of like English translations of the Bible to me I think the most major ones that people get to a American Standard the English Standard the King James the New American Standard New King James and or the NIV and the New King James. So if you just take those main six I think I think those are probably I would say the main six translations when you look at across the board love is the same across the board joy is the same across the board so is goodness which I think is interesting goodness is the same in every translation where you start to differ a little bit just a fun fact patience is also long suffering forbearance then you have kindness also shows up as gentleness faith faith is faithfulness in every translation but one King James says faith. It's the same Greek word for faith. Then meekness gentle is also gentleness and meekness and then self-control differs once in King James as tenderness anyway just seeing the synonyms really helps kind of paint the picture give you a little more context but I I found that interesting the fact that love you would think stays the same that one's pretty universal but joy and peace joy is one I found fascinating goodness that stays the same across the board.

SPEAKER_06 53:08

But anyway can you grow fruit through effort or only through abiding with Christ which we've already kind of talked about but can you can you grow this fruit that Paul's describing here can you grow it uh through your own effort or does it only come with abiding through Christ? Interesting question.

SPEAKER_01 53:36

Actually go ahead I mean I think that like I mean you cannot do it by yourself. But I also don't really think that you can just kind of sit back and hope it happens. I think that if you are very prayerful and intentional which is hilarious because I think that you know everybody says don't pray for patience because he'll just give you opportunities to be paid and just like no like Lord give me patience and give it to me 10 minutes ago that would have been great. But but yeah but I think it's like you you do have to put a little bit of your own effort into it but you know it's draw near to God and he'll draw near to you and I think that the fruit is the result of that.

SPEAKER_05 54:26

I think that's it right there. It's the effort like you're talking about but it I again I think if I'm you know hey I think I struggle with self-control I'm gonna focus on self-control I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think really where the the benefit is where are you focusing that effort? Because Paul actually so we we read Galatians 5 22 23 those fruit of the spirit he answers this question in the next verse verse 24 he says right after he he gets done listing the fruit of the spirit he says now those who belong to Christ Jesus crucified the flesh with its passions and desires so you belong to Christ Jesus you know we can say that I think sometimes flippantly that I'm a Christian or I belong to Christ, Christ is King. We can be kind of flippant about that. But what does that mean to belong to Christ is to die to self to live for Christ's gain. And just a quick side note that's where I was like I I struggle with if people ask me you know that what religion are you or or what I I struggle to say I am a Christian mainly because I don't and I don't go around saying I'm a Christian this is just me by the way I'm not saying this is the how it should be but because I don't want to have to tell people. I want it to be seen through me that I'm peculiar or and I do things differently and and maybe see Christ through me without me having to announce it or state it out loud. That's just my my thought on that but anyway if we live by the spirit Paul says verse 25 if we live by the spirit let's follow the spirit as well I think it kind of answers that question.

SPEAKER_08 56:27

I'm going till someone cuts me off yeah I think that that's a really that's good to highlight that point that you're making there Ben that that we see in verse 24 crucifying our desires in our flesh which is it's a constant struggle you know we you know we'll talk later about the the deeds of and works of the flesh at a later later point on the program but it's important for us to remember that we I think to answer your question we we can't at least sustain these this harvest of good fruit without the presence of God in our lives. There is such a thing as common grace you know can someone who's not a believer in Christ Jesus being Lord and Messiah and ruler of the universe be a good person, quote unquote, by a worldly standard? Yeah. Can they can they be a patient person? Yes. Can they be loving? Yes. So there's common grace you know God enables us you know who who are all made in his image to to do things that are good are are are worthy of of being considered good you know but to walk to walk as a disciple of Christ is to rely on his presence in our lives to continually spur us forward and produce su such fruits as the ones listed here in Galatians 5 and without him as being the root.

SPEAKER_03 58:19

I um yeah I would add to that so one of the fruit of the spirits that I struggle with is patience and I think that like I really see it sounds rude but it's not like I Taylor really helps me with that because he's someone who's so in the moment like an example that's just such it's a beautiful example of Taylor's patience that fruit is just like walking outside and I'm someone again there's a lot of measurements that go on in my mind like okay I want to complete this amount of steps in this amount of time and I don't yeah like I want to get back at this amount this time so that we can start cooking dinner. And Taylor is someone who literally stops and smells the flowers and looks at all the insects and listens to the birds and it is just like some comparisons here. Yeah it's like such a beautiful just like I really think that God blessed me with such a a husband that I just really needed in my life. And so you never thought you hear that I've told him that before but thinking about like the can you grow fruit through effort only through abiding with Christ I think we all agree and agree that it's not our it's not our own strength. It's God's strength in us I think about like why self-help books are so trendy and it's because you know it's not it's not something that eternally works. It's only like through God is his like his he brings us strength and that's what will consistently help us and his like blessings towards us and I think that for me the key thing that I focus on because even when you profess Jesus is Lord and you decide to walk with him and you choose to live in the way that scripture calls you to live you're still going to fail until you die like I we have conversations about with Sid and Betty who are in their 90s now and I've like said like oh it's so frustrating dealing with sin and they've said well how do you think we'll we feel we're 90 plus years old and so you know if they have not mastered it we're definitely not going to master it. Well that's kind of a downer too I think even when I'm 90 I'm not gonna you're not you're not until we're on you know we were with Jesus and I think that the key thing for me is it's not about perfection it's about repentance it's about like asking for forgiveness and I think that one thing that has been helpful for me is trying to not judge other people and Roman says you know as soon as you judge other people you start judging yourself and so reframing your mind to ask for forgiveness really mean it mean it with your you know complete sincerity and then wake up and ask God to help you love him better and love other people better than you did yesterday. For me that's been key because we're not going to be perfect.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:32

We're not gonna master the fruit of the spirit so yeah that's why that was amazing that that right there like okay that's the end of the episode but no um one of my biggest pet peeves is when people say oh he calls himself Christian but yeah I hate that phrase but it's so it's one of those I do want to remember to give grace to others when you know especially like you know okay he might have been just having an off day or he really struggles with you know whatever. So just because somebody is falling short with one or more of the fruits like yeah give them some grace because y'all I need all grace.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:23

Me too grace.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:24

Yeah me too one of the actually it's kind of interesting because this is one of the final points I was going to make and uh Taylor brought it up first grace and then Sabrina Lacey just built on it how can we tell if spiritual growth is actually happening I would take grace and go in a kind of a different direction. Give yourself some grace I have to remind people at work sometimes especially new folks when they come in and they're learning this new industry and they're learning whatever it can be overwhelming and I have to tell them just every so often is to stop and just look at what you know now versus what you knew a week ago two weeks ago give yourself some grace and I think the fact like the the question here how can we tell if spiritual growth is actually happening if you're asking that question the fact that you're thinking about it that's I think real easy to overlook. It's like man I'm struggling with all the fruits of the spirit the fact that you're thinking and meditating on this or having thoughts like that if you're even asking that question I think you're moving in the right direction give yourself a little bit of grace that the fact that you're even considering that thinking about the fruit of the spirit I think that's that's the best place to start is are you thinking on things that are above thinking on things that are pure and good is is the you know the main place to start is getting your mind there.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:57

Yeah yeah I I like that I think that's good. I think grace comes first for yourself and for others and then uh I wrote down just some like physical practical things that you can do as well have an accountability partner whether that's a spouse a friend a relative and one thing that I have done is just ask Taylor like I feel like I've grown in this area and then I ask for honest feedback in that and like I wouldn't suggest like go tell your your partner your husband or wife with without them asking but I would say like if they if you know they genuinely ask I think it is helpful to hear at the end of every night we sit down and I tell like some this is where no don't do that. No I'm still I'm still breathing though so and I I that one thing that one of our our our friends at church been I won't say last names just in case but one of our friends he what he does is and he's brought this into like classes is journaling and I think that is a really great practice because then you can be reflective and look back even if like your own thoughts like okay here's where I was at mentally a year ago let me see what I'm saying now. I think that's kind of a practical way to see your growth.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:16

I will add a caveat to that to the whole giving yourself grace I'm I'm with you 100%. I think one thing that we all need to remember and tread lightly is it's it can become very easy to give yourself more grace than what you're showing others. And I think we'll get more into that works of the flesh and and and being judged you know judging and and all of that because a lot of times we we'll realize that I can hold others accountable a lot quicker and a lot easier before I hold myself. You know and sometimes you can extend more grace to yourself than you're extending others. And I think that's something important to at least bring bring up and and remind remember yes it's good to show Some grace, but also compare that to what gro how much grace are you showing others. But I I'm I'm with you a thousand percent there, Sabrina.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:10

So Stephanie Stokes said that uh spiritual growth is kind of like the Wi-Fi. She's like the closer that you are to the router, the better, the better that your phone or your computer whatever works.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:25

That's why I get a couple extenders. Stretch that bandwidth. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:31

But yeah, but it's the whole, you know, abide in me and I'll write that whole thing, but it's like, you know, but that that was her analogy, and I loved it with, you know, spiritual droids is like Wi-Fi.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:46

What fruit do you pray God grows in you as a parent, spouse, friend? I I really need more peace. Interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:07:01

Why do you say interesting? Because I put peace.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:04

I feel like I feel like that's one that I've been more cog cognizant of lately that I've I've had. You know, when I look at the other ones like self-control, uh goodness, gentleness, patience, all those. I I've I feel like maybe I've improved in in certain ways on each of those. But one that here, especially lately, I've noticed peace has been there. I've I've felt more peace lately. And I think it it's come from being more cognizant and more prayerful of giving it over to God. And we're we've been working on real quick, we've been working on the a new project, Proof Profiles of Faith, where we're interviewing more seasoned veterans of life. And one interview I just did where the gentleman quoted, it was great. It's one I'm gonna just stay, it's you know, keep in my mind constantly, where he he tells himself, give it just give it over to God, dummy. Give it to God, dummy. And so I've just been telling myself, like, give it to God, dummy. You know, it's sort of it's like the more you surrender and give over. I've noticed this firsthand in my experiences, I I've been more at peace. You know, not all the the things I've been praying for for God to take away and and to fix and to solve in my life to make my life easier, they haven't all come to fruition. They're the all the problems haven't been solved, they haven't been fixed, but I've I've gained peace. Knowing that I'm still here.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:42

No.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:42

You know, we're still chugging along, we're still moving. And so there's been a sense of peace that's been there this whole time that I've just grown up appreciative of. And, you know, instead of focusing on the the prayers that I don't see as being answered or, you know, working out the way my expectations or meeting my expectations, I've at least come to accept this sense of peace that's come over me that I'm not I'm not as worried, not as uh uh anxious as I was about these problems. And I I praise God that He's given me this sense of peace.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:17

Taylor, why why did you pick peace?

SPEAKER_08 1:09:22

I I'm someone who just struggles a lot with anxiety. I think I I tend to catastrophize everything, you know. I anxiety is something that has plagued me for years. And it's gotten a lot better and it's m it's a lot it's in a more manageable and I guess if there's any amount of healthy anxiety, it's in a healthier place than it was in the past. But I don't know. I I I'm someone who struggles with that, and so even externally it may appear one way, but internally You may appear to have it all together. I may appear I don't really appear that way, but I may appear to have some you know calm exterior, but internally often I'm very anxious, and so I I and it's funny, like you know, I I like I pray about self-control pretty frequently. That's one that like is like a glaring, like, you know, have more self-control. Like do, you know, do you know say no to this, say yes to this, you know, like be very, you know, particular in your choices and your decision making. That one I'll pray about. But peace I don't tend to pray for, which is like weird because I know that I need it and like I I crave it, but I I should I should pray more for peace in my own life because I definitely desire it. One thing I will say that I think is interesting like about anxiety though, when we we were watching recently this video of a man who was preaching and he said that there's this key way that he looks at anxiety that kind of like transformed it for him, which was that he started being thankful for his anxiety because he saw his anxious thoughts as opportunities to instead turn to God. And he saw Born of the Flesh. Yeah, he was like, This anxious thought that I'm having is a reminder to me in this moment to give thanks to God for this other thing that He's providing or this other opportunity that He's given. Right, yeah, exactly. Lazy face is bad.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:47

Yeah, her jaw is dropped for the people who can't.

SPEAKER_08 1:11:50

So he was describing this process by which you cultivate peace through being thankful for anxiety. Thanks. I love it. There's there's a saint who Basil No Seraphim.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:06

I know that's a great idea.

SPEAKER_08 1:12:07

Seraphim Saint Seraphim of Sarov. He was a Russian and he said cultivate the spirit of peace within yourself that thousands around you might be saved. That this idea that God works through peaceful people and that when you have his spirit within you and you cultivate that sense of inner peace and unshakable faith that just emanates. Like I think yeah, I can you can think of these people in your life who are just they exude this peacefulness. I I know you know, we know them in our own lives, and you know, they just there's something so attractive about a peaceful person, especially in a world that is so filled with strife and anxiety and just anxiousness.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:56

Real quick real quick, one one more little tangible piece to piece. Sorry, that didn't mean nothing that I've I've I've noticed. When we say die to die to self and to live for Christ, really meditate on that. What does that mean? One thing I've noticed, and I've tried to be more cognizant of and it's helped me to to find the peace as you know, expectations. And you you started to talk about you allude to this a little bit there at the end, as far as you know in our culture, in our society, it's like yes, we have goals, yes, we have dreams. Those are good, I think, and can be positive, but sometimes they at least for me, they can take on and set you know, expectations that become like like I want to be debt-free and I want to obtain this level of education, I want to obtain this level of career. Like I have all these expectations in my mind, and I'm praying to God for those specific expectations. I'm not saying wrong to that. I think you you need to you pray uh directly and and ask God, but at the same time, I have to tamper those expectations because what I desire in this world is not ultimately what's important. What's important is you know, if if I never if if I never become debt-free or I never become you know this or that, that doesn't matter. I have to sacrifice those ex yes, I want that, but at what level do I want that? Ultimately, I want a relationship with God. I want my wife to have a relationship with God, I want my daughter to have a relationship with God because we've talked about it in, I think, in faith, because you know, at the Hall of Fame of faith, they were the things that these people who were faithful in the Old Testament, they didn't receive their promise here on earth, they received something better. And my hope and and aim is for that better. And you know, and sometimes that's at the sacrifice of expectations. God's gonna leave me where I need to be. I need to grow where I'm planted. I'm here. It may not be where I want to be, or I've seen myself, but I'm here and I'm gonna do the will of my father. Uh anyway, I'm sorry, you were you were gonna say something, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:14

I was gonna just add because you'd mentioned like you don't pray for peace, but you pray for self-control and other fruit of the spirit. And I was thinking of our recent all three of us, our silent retreat, and how it was so good. And I remember take like the first thing that came to mind was I feel peace for the first time in months, and it happened pretty quickly, and I think it's because it's intentional time with God. Like I spent that time in scripture and in prayer and just like walking and kind of just meditating on God, and yeah, like I don't know, just truly just like giving it to God, I think leads you to peace. And I didn't realize like how impactful that would be for anyone who's not tried this. We went on a silent retreat that was led by two members of our church, and um, we spent six hours at this house that was in front of this lake. So we got really great time outside um and were able to be near water, and we were encouraged to read scripture, prayer, pray, maybe do some artistic activities, journal, and I I really just didn't know like how much my spirit needed that. It was so good.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:34

Yes, I honestly I signed up for the silent retreat just to see if I could be quiet for six hours. And when Lauren came and said time is up, I was like, no, but I I want to keep going. This is wonderful.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:51

Don't send me back home where it's loud.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:55

But I I did not know how much I needed. And like I I am right there with you. No, like I I did get kind of tickled because like early on, and like it was like right when we first started, I sneezed and nobody said bless you. And I was like, Oh, oh, we're like for real about this. Like we're we're not talking, but yeah, it was oh my goodness. Like it, I was like, can we do this every weekend? Because like having that peace with God, having that one-on-one time with God.

unknown 1:17:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:30

And I would recommend not doing it at your house because I feel I feel like it was so important to do it at someone else's house. Yeah. Um, because I wasn't thinking about all the things that needed to get done, like cleaning and just grocery runs and all of the errands, and it just there's something special about going to someone else's place if you're able to and spending, I mean, I think six hours minimum. I could have, I'm with you, Lacey. I could have gone longer.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:55

Yeah, absolutely. It was wonderful. Now, I'm sorry, I know we're trying to wrap up, but we had the this one moment where we were all sitting out on the screen porch, and I think it was right after lunch. And I look up and there there's a tree that's right by the porch, and there are these two woodpeckers, and they're just kind of playing and going back and forth and whatever. And then I look up and and the two of y'all are watching the woodpeckers too, and so it's like we're spending time together while watching these woodpeckers. It was cool, but I was like, when was the last time I just sat down and watched the birds? Like, and Miss K, I love Miss K. She she said every time she hears a bird singing, it's it reminds her that they're singing praises to God in their own way. And so that's all that I could think of. But it was just like I feel like we shared like this very sweet moment where even though we weren't saying a word, we're just all just watching the watching the the woodpeckers play. It was fun.

SPEAKER_08 1:19:06

Yeah, it was a really great experience. I I also just had an amazing time on that retreat and really thankful for the people who put it on, would do it again for sure.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:18

Absolutely. I had fun at home watching bumble gums with three-year-old. Six hours.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:26

Less silent than our experience. But just slightly less.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:30

Well, as we wrap this up, the fruit of the spirit here. I want to reread the fruit of the spirit, the verses we started off with, but uh I want to I want to take it all the way to the end of the chapter. There's one verse at the very end that we haven't read yet, uh that I want to go ahead and hit. I think it's a great way to conclude this. Galatians 5, verse, start in verse 22. But the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law. By the way, I meant to ask you earlier, as a resident legalist, you must struggle with Romans, don't you? Do you strike I'm blinking on what you're meaning right now? With the law and all that. Well, we'll get to that next episode. But anyway, I'm sorry. I meant to ask you that earlier.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:24

But did you ask do I struggle with it?

SPEAKER_05 1:20:26

With Romans, because he goes hard on legalists.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:31

We should we should talk more about that because I have a lot of inside on legalism.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:36

We'll get to that. I do too. But anyway, against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the Spirit, let's follow the Spirit as well. And this last verse we haven't read yet. Let's not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another. I think it's a great place to conclude. And fruit of the spirit is so much there, especially if you go fruit by fruit, fruit by the foot. But uh I think that's a good summation, maybe, of of fruit of the spirit. And we'd love to hear from you guys or other fellow small group members. What fruits do you fruit do you struggle with? What any especially any helpful hints or tips that you found when when meditating on these kind of things. So uh great to be back together, guys. I really enjoyed this one. Um and we've got a little bit more to go, but we'll get back to it. We appreciate you guys joining small group tonight. And until next time, we'll see you then.