Ep. 10 - Talkin' with the Guys (Kyle & Robbie - Part 2)

Kyle Wright and Robbie Livingston return to pick up where they left off last episode. Kyle opens up about his personal struggles in the past from personal mental health to scars from previous church experiences. Together with hosts Benjamin and Taylor the guys dive deep into what church means and what it is, while also opening up about their own struggles and experiences. When the issues of current struggles comes up, the men are able to connect deeper with one another and look to build one another up in what turns into a deep and emotional episode. 

Thank you for joining in Small Group, and please feel free to participate with us by sending your thoughts, questions, or ideas by commenting, messaging, or by email (goat.bear.lobster@gmail.com). You can also reach out, and find out more about us, at our website: SmallGroupPodcast.wordpress.com. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:42

Remember, kids, be like the grass. The more manure that could stone on you, the stronger you could get. This is Small Group. I'm Benjamin Maxwell.

SPEAKER_03 0:50

I'm Taylor Bain.

SPEAKER_05 0:51

And we're back with our special guests, Robbie Livingston and Kyle. Right on. I don't know. I'm on the blank ones. Kevin Rydon. Oh, that was the thing when uh when when Kyle started coming to church the first two times he was there, and I worked, I've worked with him for like three or four months by this point. I just started introducing him as Kevin. This is Kevin. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 1:20

So imagine hearing that and then getting into that passionate speech in between reports.

SPEAKER_04 1:25

If I program your name, if I program your name wrong, it's just wrong forever.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

Kevin Wright. Kevin wrong. Kyle's such a good guy. Oh, don't accuse me of stuff. Thanks for coming back. What I'm wearing the same clothes as I wore last time.

SPEAKER_05 1:47

I'm starting to worry about Kevin. I feel like maybe he's struggling. We need to help.

SPEAKER_07 1:54

If you only knew. So we're gonna do a quick icebreaker. And I'm only gonna ask once.

SPEAKER_05 2:03

If you're a robot but you didn't know you're a robot and I did, would you want me to tell you?

SPEAKER_04 2:08

I think if yeah, I think you I'd want you to tell me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:11

I think we could uh join together and would that change anything?

SPEAKER_04 2:17

I I I hope you could convince me to let's go fight whoever's working us to death.

SPEAKER_05 2:29

Does that change anything spiritually?

SPEAKER_04 2:33

I'm I'm uh I'm on a deep rabbit hole of uh if he can create once, he can create again. So you know, that's I'm not there, but I've had those thoughts.

SPEAKER_08 2:44

You can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball. Yeah. What about you, Taylor? What you got?

SPEAKER_03 2:50

I would want to know.

SPEAKER_04 2:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:52

I I think I have to know, and I'll uh I don't think if we're a robot, we would know. Well, he's saying if we were a robot and he could tell us you are a robot confirmed, would you want to know? I think the truth sets you free. That's the words of Jesus. So scripture. Scripture. Here we go.

unknown 3:12

Roasted.

SPEAKER_03 3:13

That's the book of John.

SPEAKER_02 3:14

Are we not robots? Because I live in this routine.

SPEAKER_05 3:18

You're talking simulation theory. Let's go with the matrix. Matrix and Matrix. We just recently watched the Matrix. There is no spoon.

SPEAKER_02 3:25

I would love to know, but the only thing I think I said it before we went on. Just take my batteries out eight hours a day, dude. Let me just do a full shutdown.

SPEAKER_05 3:33

Well, that brings me to my next announcement, guys. I hate to break it to you. No, you you're a robot. No, I'm just playing. Oh. Nobody followed me on that.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

Boy, that took me way too long.

SPEAKER_05 3:49

Well, I'm not compute. I put your symptoms in the computer and it said you have connectivity issues.

SPEAKER_02 3:57

Internet connectivity issues.

SPEAKER_05 4:00

I kind of want to just jump in, pick up a little bit where we left off last episode. I want to start with Kevin.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

My goodness. We're fried.

SPEAKER_05 4:16

Kyle the Kevin. And because you mentioned last episode a little bit about your I guess initial or imp first impressions of when you started worshiping with us at the congregation where we worship. And some and and I know you and I have talked about this before, some things that are really connected with you that I think are very important. Things that went way past me, but were very important to you. And I and and I really think that's important. Identifying those things that are important to certain people were you know were things that I might miss, kind of, you know, you know what I'm saying? So if you want to walk us through kind of what your experience was there.

SPEAKER_02 4:55

I would love to tell you all the things I love about our church.

SPEAKER_07 5:00

Let's get into it here.

SPEAKER_02 5:01

Uh so uh it Rachel and I went on a church hunt for a long time, and I I I grew up in a church that was not man, I don't ever want to say it wasn't the best.

SPEAKER_06 5:14

Because I don't I think Ezra! Oh Carson, hey, can you like do something? Yeah, just stare at him, that'll help it.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

No, we're good, we're live.

SPEAKER_06 5:26

This is the chaos of your full little thank you. I felt I felt like I was pulling that away.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

You can drag that.

SPEAKER_06 5:39

I see you get up, and I've Oh, we're on.

SPEAKER_02 5:43

Oh, all right, we're still here. All right, we're back. That's the chaos of uh live uh a live show, a live recording in front of a studio audience of two children. Boy, where were we? Back to all right, so so I grew up in a church that, and again, I don't ever want to say it wasn't the best, but it it I think that everybody there thought that they were doing their best. But I grew up in a church that was full of judgment, the kind of place that where like if you smoked a cigarette, you were going to hell. If you went to the movies, you were going to hell. If you did anything that could be conceived as worldly, what was the word that got thrown out a lot. Worldly. You you were gonna burn. And that's just kind of the way it was. So for a very, very long time, I was just I I had I I've always been a Christian, I've always been a believer, but I never I I had it set in my heart at one point that we were I was just never gonna go back to church. And I was fine with that because I don't I always go back to Thor Ragnarok for anybody out there that's a Marvel fan, where Thor says Asgard isn't a place, it's a people. Like church isn't a building, church is to church is what we're doing right here. But I do think that there is value in having a building and having a family for that build for have you know to meet in that building. So it I and I've grown on that idea quite a bit, but I had it in my heart that I was just it would just never was gonna happen again. And so we went on a hunt for a little while because we had I'm not gonna get too deep into the weeds of all this, but it we had some really, really bad stuff happen to us, mostly me, from which being married is us from December 2023 through um September of 2024, just one of the worst stretches of my life, or first time in my life that I legitimately contemplated suicide. And it it's it was it was a really dark time. So we we took that and we were like, okay, it's time, it's time to find something. And so we went on a hunt. And when we first go to a church, we don't take our kids with us for multiple reasons. Number one, we don't if we don't like it, we don't want to expose them to it. We we don't want to take them there, and they love it, and then we don't like it, and then we pull them away from that. So we we made a couple of stops. There was one that we really liked, our friends invited us to, but there was it was too small for me. It was about a 55 to 60 person congregation, and it was the kind of thing where you when you walked in, everybody knew you were new. And I have some believe it or not, even being in the industry that I am, I have some social anxieties where I was like, I it was hard to get over those. Maybe a little bit shallow, but I'm a man of the truth, so I gotta tell that. So we stopped going there, and then we went to another church, and and and there's a reason I'm telling you these stories, and I'll I'll come back to these in a minute. We we the first time we went, the pastor got up on stage, and the first 40 minutes of it was him talking he he played a video from Casey DeSantis about you know why medicinal marijuana should not be legalized. It was because this is the year it was on the ballot, it was like 2024, and I I didn't like that. Now I I I believe man, it's a such a different rabbit hole to go down, but I believe as a Christian, yes, there are views that most there is a certain side of the political spectrum that most Christians fall onto, and I am I I'm also part of that. But I also don't feel I'm not a big fan of churches being a place of polling. I I don't and I know ours is. I don't like that.

SPEAKER_05 9:37

But whole different every once in a while.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

Yeah, well, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:42

Yeah, it is convenient. I'm not a fan of it either, but I it's convenient.

SPEAKER_02 9:46

Whole different rabbit hole. Whole different rabbit hole. So didn't love that. I I don't like politics being brought into the church in any in any aspect. And then I I always I will always give somebody a second chance. So if it's like benefit of the doubt, maybe we're just here on a bad week. The next week we went back, there was a this wasn't Palo Alto, by the way. No, this was not Palo Alto. We we went back to the same church and the the pastor standing on the stage. It's a big, this big multi-million dollar stage. You got the bright lights, the LED walls, and it talks about how your walk with Christ isn't complete until you pay your tithe and offering. And I told Rachel, I was like, I will be in the car. I got up and I walked out. Like, just not interested in that. Now, I I understand the importance of tithe and offering. I understand. Like, I'm not stupid, I'm not ignorant, like I understand that that's how the church makes their money.

SPEAKER_04 10:40

I wouldn't say makes their money.

SPEAKER_02 10:42

Well, but but that's that's how the church sustains. Yeah. That's how they're able to stay afloat. That's how they do good works, the the mission trips to Guatemala, Mexico, the sending the youth on these things, having these these women's uh events that have that got us together tonight, like that kind of stuff. Yeah. Bless my son. But so we so when we landed at Palo Alto, the first three messages, the first one was about money.

SPEAKER_04 11:10

Really?

SPEAKER_02 11:11

The the very first one when we walked into that church that was about money. And and I don't, of course, now like I don't remember yesterday, so I don't remember like the meat of the conversation, but it was about how your financial status does not equal your legitimacy with Christ. And it's like, dude, that okay, perfect. So the next week we came back and we we brought our kids. That week was about mental health and anxiety, and he played a clip from inside out, the movie Inside Out 2. Oh, okay. This was my second ever service. He played a clip from Inside Out 2. So that right there, I was like, okay, well, watch. Watching a Disney movie, though, that was worldly in the church I grew up in. So him showing a clip of that, dude, like we're human beings, like we have children. Yeah, we've seen that movie, of course. So that was cool, but also the church I grew up in, mental health and anxiety was a plague. It was treated as such. And if you were ever feeling anxiety, it's because you were disconnected from Christ. And then he goes into the scripture where it's like pretty much saying Jesus dealt with anxiety, and it's like drew away, yeah. Right. It it it in its own way, right? There's it's kind of tiptoes around it, but it's people deal with that stuff, man. We're human beings, we're not perfect. And then the very next week, growing up in that church about judgment, that's always been my fit my my biggest thing is that I I believe that there's nothing that drives people away from Christianity more than Christians. And it's because of judgmentalism. Yeah. And it was that service where he did you can't see the sawdust in another in another person's eyes through the plank in your own. And that that was it. That was it for me. And I was like, okay, well, these were all for me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:57

Jesus cooked them up for you.

SPEAKER_03 12:59

Yeah, they like spirits orchestrating that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

He said on a Wednesday night that he like he doesn't, and he wasn't saying this to me, but he said he doesn't believe like that scriptures are made for certain people or something. I pulled him aside after him, like, I'll tell you why you were wrong tonight. Because that the reason I'm here is because like those first three, it was like God telling me, like, you're here. Like that this is where you should be.

SPEAKER_05 13:20

I was sitting in those three lessons wondering, like, who's the for me?

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Stand up if this is for you, please.

SPEAKER_03 13:28

Who's casting judgment? Inside out, anxiety. Raise your hand if you have anxiety. Hey, I'm cursed with it. Oh wow. Wow, cursed. No, I really, I really cursed. I really appreciate you sharing that absolutely experience of coming to the congregation and like finding finding a an experience of church that was I don't know, would you call it surprising to you in that moment? Was it something you expected to find or no, no, hoping, yes.

SPEAKER_02 14:04

Yeah, expecting no. It's kind of the not necessarily setting yourself up for disappointment, but preparing yourself for it.

SPEAKER_05 14:13

Yeah, cautious expectations.

SPEAKER_02 14:14

Yeah, yeah, cautiously optimistic. Yeah. Kind of the the approach to it. And and and again, you know, no no place is ever gonna be perfect. Like we we we have seen some flaws, and like, man, to this day, the the a cappella thing of the church of Christ like gets us sometimes. We're like, it just feels a little a little weird because grow growing up in that church, man, it was like the the the energy was high, the music was going, yeah, the drummer, and it was like I love that. I love that stuff. But I that I love this too, man. I it it's nice to it's nice to feel it's nice to wake up on a Sunday morning and not say, I have to go to church. Like I wake up Monday through Friday, I'm like, God, I gotta go to work. But I wake up on Sunday and I'm like, we got we're going to church.

SPEAKER_03 14:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:56

It's a different feeling.

SPEAKER_03 14:59

That's awesome. I I'm man, it's really reassuring to hear that you had that experience because I, you know, I often wonder for like for myself, I wonder what it would have been like if I had been in a background where I felt really just disconnected from it. You know, my disconnection from church life had everything to do with sin in my life and a disconnect from God more generally. And you know, I had I have my own kind of like history of I don't know if you caught baggage with church relationships. That had to do more with being in college, attending church that, you know, not to drop denominational stuff in here, but just in a church that wasn't a preaching of Christ-centered gospel, essentially, boiled down to that, and just like everything but Jesus being the focus. And that was kind of but what you're describing, I think, is another version of that. Yeah. Another version of religious legalism, religious judgmentalism, rigidity pushing you away from being able to come to God's house and worship with some of his family. Yeah. And I'm really I'm thankful that in spite of the background that you came from, maybe for a while pushing you away and feeling like you didn't have a community that you could gather with, that you're with us and gathering with us, in spite of all the flaws that we still have, you know. I mean, it's it's it's encouraging to hear that you that you and and your whole family have been able to find that where we are. So I love that.

SPEAKER_05 16:40

The line comes to mind what you're talking about, and I've heard it across multiple different denominations, is you know, the whole church is a hospital for sinners. Yeah. It's been said in many different ways, but I think essentially it's a hospital. It's not to you know critique the the lessers. It's to serve and heal everybody.

SPEAKER_07 17:06

Right.

SPEAKER_05 17:06

Yeah. And nobody in there is a doctor and everybody else is patient. God is the doctor, and we're all patient. So it's that sense of humility. Which I'm with you. It was a it was another thing that connected with us too. Just being challenged in ways and and being convicted in in ways that I've never had to be really helped me to grow too. Uh that was kind of my experience there. Or has been my experience, and and I'm grateful for it. And yeah, that the whole because it seems what you're describing, uh, you know, you hear I've heard often from many, you know, people not just personally, but like you you you can go on YouTube and you know find all these people talking about their they call church hurt. I've heard it called church hurt or just people from church burn church burn. Yeah, yeah, yeah. People really struggling with that trauma. And it's like, man, we can really was it you that said like right? Maybe it was you that said it that Christians do some of the some quote unquote Christians do more harm sometimes to the kingdom than they do anything else.

SPEAKER_03 18:20

I mean, I think it goes back to this reminds me of to to pull up some scripture. There's a verse in Romans. I'm gonna pull it up real quick. I believe it's in Romans four or five.

SPEAKER_07 18:34

Let me uh get the Bible open here.

SPEAKER_03 18:39

Where Paul writing to the church in Rome basically says that the name of God is is it's Romans, excuse me, it's Romans two, not four or five. I'm I'm off by a few chapters. So it's Romans two, verse twenty-four where Paul's writing to the church in Rome here and he says the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you. And you know, that's like such a call out where and he and he's referencing, he's he's citing Isaiah chapter 52, where he's saying essentially that exactly what Kyle has just articulated, which is that it is the Christians arguing among themselves inside churches, my church is better than your church, your church is wrong, you're going to hell, I'm you know, you're saved, I'm not saved. That type of argumentation does so much damage towards people who need to hear the gospel and need the love of Christ. And it's like there is a time and a place for theological debate, dispute. I mean, the earliest church councils, people are getting together, talking these things out, and and gathering around in a peaceable way, having discussions about God can be a beautiful and fruitful thing. I think that verse where we're we're where Paul is pointing us to the fact that like the biggest stumbling block to people coming to know Christ is often the Christian. And that's such a hard realization. Or the church, yeah. It's hard realization. And so, and I've been that stumbling block to others. You know, I don't want to, I don't want to, you know, necessarily admit that, but it's true that like there have been times where I've thought, you know, man, I really didn't represent Jesus in the way that Jesus would want me to represent it. Right. And so that verse just kind of popped into my head what you were saying, Kyle, there. It's like, you know, the name of the Lord being blasphemed among Gentiles because of the believers. It's and it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard thing to hear.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

He says you. You, you because of you. You, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:43

It's not because of the other Gentiles, they already don't believe. Like they're you know, they're lost in unbelief. So it's a good reminder and like and like a way to like ground us in understanding that like ultimately when we look to a family like yours, like the right family, coming into a church building, looking for a community, looking for a place where they're loved, safe, heard, and understood and valued for who they are. You know, we just we all have to do a better job as Christians at welcoming, and we're so glad that you're that you're part of our family.

SPEAKER_02 21:19

So because those broken people, I mean, church is for everybody, but those are the ones you want there. Like that that those are like those are the people that quote unquote need church. Like we we all do, right? But like those people are the ones that you want there, man. Like you don't the the healthy guy, as Ben mentioned, the healthy guy doesn't go to the hospital, you don't go to the ER for a checkup. Like it just doesn't like you've got your own primary care for that. Like the ER is for the people that need to that have something wrong with them, that need to be healed, and that's that's the church. Like the the church is for like those are the people you want going. Right. I just feel like there was always a there was always a disconnect in that and and I do feel like that that maybe that older generation has has a has a large part to play in that but that's a whole different rabbit hole. Were you and Rachel pretty unified on like this is the this is the this this is where we need to be yeah it it was the weird thing is it was never there was never a conversation about it.

SPEAKER_03 22:21

Like there was just an assumption yeah like it it was I get you know Matthew had us both go up on stage which of course Ben Maxwell wasn't there that week either he's like this is Kevin guy I knew this would come up every minute I will uh Matthew he's got traditions that he has to yeah yeah gotta miss the big ones man put your next one out fourth of July all right well I'm gonna do something that week you're preaching I know we'll see you they don't want me up there you you you see me after church no I remember that that that day when you and Rachel got up and it I I feel like for some reason I was also on stage that day for some you you read okay you read I okay I don't even know what I said you're up on stage a lot now I always black out when I didn't know your name yet I didn't know and I was like these people are telling this beautiful life story and like this arc of like coming back to church like why am I up here? What am I saying? I I blacked out I have no idea but I remember very distinctly you describing it's got some curse of anxiety or something I do dude my wife embarrassed me that night that day I mean she I I messed up and gave her the mic first it was beautiful.

SPEAKER_04 23:39

No that's what I'm saying and because I it I saw her speak that day and I've seen her speak before and you know even Sabrina you know she can bring it in a classroom setting and yeah you know she spoke wisdom straight to my soul like stop you know oh man Sabrina So there was a point where I was having a I was leading Wednesday night classes.

SPEAKER_05 24:02

Yeah man so so grateful when Sabrina walked through the door because she always had some great words.

SPEAKER_02 24:10

Powerful women man they will just they'll they'll you know what I mean like they they'll like there's nothing that can deliver like a powerful woman I'm I'm trying to get one of our one of our coworkers to realize that man like because you don't have to do powerful women are like those those are the ones you want to follow man like it and then we're I think we're all four fortunate enough to have one of those in our household. Fortunate at times sometimes it's a little intimidating.

SPEAKER_04 24:37

Amen I I think as watching you and Rachel show up and you know truly giving church a good try like a lot of people come and don't you know you're gonna get what you put into it of course but you got to give it a good try too you got to try to get connected try to serve try to like you can't just come to Sunday and then like there's a lot of people that come to Sunday and do all the things and you know it's just nice to see you coming and participating and just getting involved and you know making connections like you know saying yes you know saying yes to you know doing this. You know you could have been like no I don't want to do a podcast I do enough podcasting and I want to come on your podcast. Or you didn't want to help Ben you could have said no to Ben and said you know Ben didn't even have to ask.

SPEAKER_05 25:33

Yeah and that's the thing like he was he came in just I would have said no he's contractively obvious obviously but no he came in with with an energy you know want to set up meetings with with Matthew and just had all these ideas of of stuff he wants wants to do and I hope I hope we we still we still get that done but I did want to bring in some scripture and really kind of pointing to the overarching thing that you were bringing up as far as you know this going back to this concept of of brokenness or or church hurt church burn as as Robbie said and you know and and it what this boils down to is then I think we have to take a look at ourselves what is church? What is what what is the responsibility? Yeah we can have lines like it's a hospital for sinners you know and that works some people but in scripture like what what are we called to do and I was just in Hebrews a few days ago I think and and I couldn't find I can't find the verse right now for some reason but talking about is it 1230 you might be right it's in I think it's around 11, 1213. Where it's you know the church is it's it's the verse the part you hear the most is not forsaking the assembly. But the the rest of that verse is why do we not forsake the assembly of ourselves together because we want to we want to assemble together to stir up love, agape and good works encouragement and good works. That's what the church is it's it's encouraging good works with one another and and this can be a very overwhelming topic like I mean like you kind of brought up yeah you can what is the church what is its purpose it can be very contentious in a lot a lot of times and I've brought this up before my default my safe place that I retreat to whenever I'm overwhelmed in any kind of discussion, debate, whatever it is trying to navigate all of these waters these waters of human understanding and human what's the word preferences really at the end of the day I go back to the greatest command is to love the Lord your God with all your heart, your soul, your mind, your strength and the second just like it love your neighbor as yourself. And I think that's that's also summing up what church is I mean what that's what the greatest command to love God. Love your neighbor and John tells us you know if you love God and hate your neighbor you're a liar because you can't love your you can't love God and hate your neighbor then it's contradictory. Okay so what is love right agape what is that if we're to love our neighbor and I we hear this everybody's gonna be very familiar with the first Corinthians. John does a great job of describing agape what it is we love because he first loved us but Paul the Corinthians you usually hear it in weddings but this is speaking straight to what is the church? What are we how do we love our neighbor? What does that mean loving your neighbor? Well what is love? Love is patient it is kind it is not jealous it does not brag it is not arrogant does not act disgracefully it does not seek its own benefit it is not provoked it does not keep an account of wrongs that one hurts doesn't it does not rejoice in unrighteousness but rejoices with the truth it keeps every confidence it believes all things hopes all things and endures all things that is that is the church what what's the verse?

SPEAKER_04 29:28

I'm sorry yeah first Corinthians 13 I was starting in verse four it goes on love never fails but there is I think I think anytime Paul makes a list yeah like he's gonna make sure he hits you in some way or form or fashion do you agree Taylor?

SPEAKER_05 29:51

Like if he's gonna make a list he's gonna go five steps too far and he might not get you on the first couple steps but he's gonna get you on step three or you know six seven well real quick to that point too I'm I'm reading from the NASB no I'm re I'm reading from the NASB but to that point I would encourage like when he says okay so love is agape love is patient yeah what's the word for patient go in what do the other translations describe that as love is kind what is what are the other translations say like look across other translations how are they describing that same verse how are they describing love and you can find different connections and meaning in those translations to help you better understand what is it as as a church what are we to do as a member of the church what am I to do and really understand your role there is very important because like what you're describing it can be we brought it up I think last episode or a couple episodes ago I think that's right. One of my fears is you know you you don't want to miss an opportunity to talk about God to somebody. That's one thing I definitely don't want to be a dis advan a discouragement in that same vein. Miss an opportunity is one thing but becoming a stumbling block for someone is a whole nother thing that definitely don't want to do and that's something I think we all need to take to heart and really consider.

SPEAKER_04 31:18

I I'm speaking to myself too most of all and I I like to say that anytime you're excluding anybody you're not you're not doing Jesus. Like if you're saying well they can't be a Christian because of this I'm sorry we we weren't talking oh my goodness but I think anytime you're excluding anybody you're not being Jesus like he you know your neighbor is the person you're looking at right and it's you know and I think though the immigrant or the you know the the person in the ditch or the person walking or the anybody you can see that's who you're supposed to love and you're not exclude them from treat them as souls.

SPEAKER_05 32:00

That's one thing I like to do is treat other individuals as souls.

SPEAKER_04 32:04

Yeah and that's up to down to kids to old people I mean especially kids.

SPEAKER_03 32:09

You know all the way up all the way down you gotta do it you know he gives a uh Jesus gives a stark warning to you know you a millstone tied around your neck and thrown into the sea better because these yeah better for to be better for a millstone to be dead Matthew 18 yeah the uh I really agree with what you're saying and I think the gospels continually show us that the people that we would be quickest to exclude are consistently and intentionally the people that Jesus is the quickest to include whether that's a a woman rejected caught in adultery whether that is the woman at the well the tax collectors whether that's a tax collector whether that is the you know the the sinner of all sinners that you think they could never wind up coming in our church building a hospital however you want to see it like Kyle was saying that's the person who's like Jesus the great physician is like time to do heart surgery on you.

SPEAKER_02 33:07

That's where that's one thing that it you know I know I know that this isn't a Palo Alto does not sponsor this podcast by the way but that's one thing that has been refreshing is like learning and seeing and actually having real conversation about like dude that's who Jesus hung out with.

SPEAKER_03 33:24

Right that's that like because those were the people he wanted to conve like convert to follow him right like they literally those are the people we want to get to the the biggest gripes of the Pharisees one one of the biggest gripes of the Pharisees and the Sadducees who murdered a God Paul murdered cross their gripe one of their biggest gripes was like this guy hangs out with the people that we could not even breathe the same air as like we they they were so caught up in in this mosaic law you know we you know our law says XYZ our hearts right their hearts were so hardened to understand and see the need the deep need of people for a relationship with God that when literal God came and was like let's have a relationship they were just like can't be on that guy's team let's kill him I mean it's just it's just such like a deep and dark commentary on human nature and yet God in the middle of that darkness and in the middle of that deep and ultimate betrayal reverses it gives us and gives us salvation that's it's it's the most it's beautiful but it's it's heartbreaking it really is.

SPEAKER_05 34:45

And I want to be very careful here because there is one more layer. Right. So everything you guys are saying absolutely I 100% agree with and I don't want to leave with but because that undoes everything before it but there's no but it's not a but it's additionally I want to add what you guys are describing is I I feel like a the foundational right understanding then there's another layer on top of that because a hospital is only as good as its ability to heal. Now that does it and this is where this is where I think I I think a lot of the controversy stems from and a lot of the issues stem from is understanding this next layer and that is I'm not the one doing the healing. I'm not the doctor. Yeah Robbie is not Robbie's not the doctor's God is the doctor God is the one doing the work right at best I might be a nurse but here's the thing because you brought up the especially the woman caught in adultery right he tells her yeah yes he he went to sinners we're all sinners he went to everyone but what did he tell her? He said go and sin no more right now he was convicting the Pharisees and Sadducees too right nobody is safe here we're all sick so they got their treatment and but he also delivered a treatment to her as far as go and sin no more there is a there is a change there is a repentance factor here a conviction we talked about this at nauseam in faith faith is the assurance of things hoped for the conviction of things not seen when you are being convicted there is there especially in in faith towards God and understanding I am saved by grace through faith as a gift there comes with that when you take that seriously a change of heart a change of acts a change of works and and what is the church it is to encourage and stir up good works. Now I think the fallacy is we we get a little we we definitely get heavy handed on the treatment we we start confusing ourselves as the ones delivering the treatment we start seeing we start dictating are they are they healing fast enough? Are they changing repenting fast enough? Because sometimes we all I think have our own processes as far as you know we need we need to keep I say catering for lack of a better word we need to keep tending to each other in love. Sometimes and I I'm speaking to myself I I don't change quickly. It's not a okay Robbie came to me and said these words now I'm changed and and convicted some some things some changes take time and I think in kind of what you're describing uh Kyle you know growing up with that very judgmental and and and and looking at specific things like mental health as a plague like you said it's like you start getting that over overgeneralized or overburdened on specifics you're not allowing time for that healing process if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 38:04

And I I think that the spirit came on you and Rachel and that peace spirit that you got from our church like you know we I I feel like I try to be spirit led and I know the preacher personally and he's like trying to block out the noise and be spirit led. But it's a different kind of spirit than you're used to seeing and the fact that you and Rachel had peace in your spirit with the spirit we try to be led with that's you know you you you know it's a spirit it's a spiritual thing that you're seeking and the spiritual thing that you found. And you know I would just say you know it's fun to see people show up and you know to be spiritually changed for the better and try to spiritually change their family.

SPEAKER_05 39:02

I was just gonna add real quick too because the and I think you're kind of shrouding this the humility factor.

SPEAKER_00 39:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 39:10

You know, like I was saying just a minute ago like you know we the this is where I think we start to the the Christians get a hand a hold of it and start to mess it the the the humans the the individuals get a hold of it start to mess it up where they start to administer the the healing and all of this because let's use you for example you've been there yet let's say this is your first week here and I've been here for many decades I'm still healing. Right? It's not up to me to heal you I'm here to encourage and and help be a servant to you but I'm still healing and then and I think that's another problem is when we get into these oh this person's a leader and and I think it's good to have those examples. Hebrews talks about those examples of faith those are great but also those examples of faith need to be examples of humility as well that even though I've been here for many decades I'm much older whatever the situation they're still there to be healed as well. You know these people that we really look up to and and can do no wrong in our sight they're sinners too who are healing and I try to say like I'm just a man filled with the man like I'm not I'm not perfect.

SPEAKER_04 40:27

I'm the man filled with the man like I'm just a man I'm just a vessel filled with Jesus and I'm trying to pour my spirit out onto other people and so that kind of like like because I've gone to church for too long and like people just look at me and say oh well you're a church girl or you're in leadership or you're in all these things and it's like I'm just trying to humble myself and serve and you know answer the phone be you know able to talk to and you know some people you know because I've been in church and I know all the things and I know all the people and I know all the things it's just like some people are you know shut off to me and they're like you know I'm not I'm not opening up to you because you know it's just and I'm just and I'm okay with that. I don't need to know everything and you know it's just it's encouraging to know that the spirit is leading people to us and you know it's just interesting to watch.

SPEAKER_03 41:27

I think it's truly to God's glory that there are many stories of individuals who are like filled with God's Holy Spirit in spite of all of the ways in which any one of us could mess it up. It's like how goes the church was in spite of me right right yeah that Bible study right yeah yeah so I mean I was complaining and I couldn't stop the Holy Spirit he's so he's so much bigger than us and so you know we you know when he moves and and works in the way he chooses there's nothing we can do to get in his way.

SPEAKER_04 42:09

And the weaving of it all like the weaving of Cal story you know I wouldn't I would have never guessed you know somebody from the other side of town would be going to church with us but there's people from all the churches in town that go to us 30A dude 30 but it's just you know there's people from long distances there's people that come from Mariana there's people that come from Panama City Beach 30A there's just people that come from so far to go to church with us and it's not because of our music or not because of it's not because of us it's not because of us it's because of the spirit they're filling it might be because we get out of the way we try to get out of the way we don't always get out of the way yeah we don't always get out of the way but being cognizant of that I think is because if you're not it it snowballs into what you're talking about an overarching over condemning overjudging and I keep we keep going back to the the the doctor healing metaphor but I think you could also look at it as I'm not the judge Robbie's not the judge you're not the judge we're here to encourage and stir up good works we're not we're not here to we're not here to convict we're here to encourage conviction we're not here to to hand down the conviction yeah to hand down the sentencing that's not up to me that's up to God and I need to come at it from a what like if I do see something Paul talks about this too of you know multiple pla one I think I mentioned last episode he talks about not stirring up useless arguments needless arguments but he also in a similar situation talks about you know holding one another accountable and and going to the that brother or sister in love and and telling them you know hey and that's where I

SPEAKER_05 44:00

I think we really start to get in trouble is our approach to that. If we one identifying what is that that we might disagree with or we might see as someone else falling into sin or temptation, whatever that is, we need to take that serious and analyze how are we approaching that before we even approach that person. How are we looking at that? Do we have all the information? And then approaching that person in the proper way. And that's that's the hard part.

SPEAKER_04 44:26

You know, it's like you know, you don't always get to speak to the person because you can't do it, they don't understand a per a relationship for love that you have for that person. And so it's hard to you can't speak to all the things because you can't come at it from a place of love, and so you just gotta be silent sometimes and let God work.

SPEAKER_03 44:46

I think that that a good rule is and it this is gonna look different for everybody because people have different practices and habits, but a rule that I try that I try and like focus on, you know, and I'm I'm someone who's pretty slow to ever I I don't know, I'm an I'm not a confrontational person by my nature, you know. My wife would say I'm an avoider, even I avoid things probably to my detriment sometimes, but you protect your my well my my like my baseline is like if I've not like if if if there was something with Robbie where I was like and there's nothing because Robbie's being beyond reproach, I'm just I got some stuff so it but but like genuinely if there was something like really grave or serious with Robbie that like I knew he was struggling with, and as a good friend of his, I wanted to help him out. Like, if I had not spent a significant amount of time in prayer for Robbie before ever speaking to Robbie, then I've totally missed the mark. And I don't think I mean that's I mean I need to I need to be spending like a month in prayer minimum. That's a challenge, even longer.

SPEAKER_05 46:01

Because at that point you're giving it to God. Right. You're not the one acting, you're at least taking the time to hand it over to God. Have you done that have you done that? God's guidance, God's God's response to it, not my response to it. That's uh I think I'm so glad you brought up the prayer part. That is absolutely crucial. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 46:21

And if you don't have nothing to say, just pray about it and let God do his thing because he's leaving it to make that person better.

SPEAKER_03 46:27

Like that that trial, that you know, that that thing is there's so many circumstances where I like I see myself wanting to, you know, be hands-on. If I were gonna do it, here's how I would do it. Yeah, it's like I'm thankful that I'm not the one who's in charge.

SPEAKER_05 46:45

Amen. I'm talking me too. I'm glad I'm not okay.

SPEAKER_03 46:49

No, I don't need to be in charge. But like, you know, like you know, I see I see so many situations in our lives, so many, like we've been talking about individual journeys of people coming to a church, coming to faith, having struggles in their life. We should just be bringing all this to God. Like ultimately, he's in charge. He needs our he, you know, he he needs he doesn't need our prayers, but he needs us to have relationship with them, and to the extent that that if we're not in relationship with him, how are we gonna be effective in relationship with each other?

SPEAKER_04 47:18

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 47:19

Yeah, we can't be effective with each other if we're not.

SPEAKER_04 47:21

It comes back to disciplines. Are you praying? Are you reading scripture? Are you seeking wise counsel? Are you serving serving? Are you doing it in the right being humble? Yeah, yeah. And then you know, I I go back to have I talked to my wife, you know, seek wise counsel, and then you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 47:41

Are you trying to make up some ground here? Yeah, get ahead of something.

SPEAKER_08 47:45

When does she come back?

SPEAKER_05 47:46

Yeah, I got a no the as far as the humbling thing goes, because you did bring up the Kyle brought up the uh yeah, sawdust and your the uh your neighbor's eye and planking your own eye. Yeah. I think that calls indirectly to to humility. And there's a it it's it's mentioned a few times in scripture throughout scripture, and it's so catchy and simple and easy to remember. He who humbles himself will be exalted, and he who exalts himself will be rotten. I'm sorry, we'll be humble.

SPEAKER_04 48:19

Oh my goodness, this guy will judge you in a circle. You gotta keep judging.

SPEAKER_05 48:26

He who exalts himself will be humble. And I that that speaks to me in a way that I I try to carry keep that forefront up there with greatest command and second, just like it.

SPEAKER_03 48:37

I think it's very convicting. So there's such a human tendency to want to be first in line, you know, and like even if you're not first in line, if you perceive that someone cuts you off in a line, like I've been waiting this long, how dare someone come and cut me off, right? Like, and yet scripture so shows us that Jesus literally tells the Pharisees, these tax collectors and prostitutes are getting in before you, like you're not in the front of the line. Don't assume you're placed in a line, you know. And I don't know if there's like like literally like the pearly gates open, and there's like the a line of people there. Like, I I I don't know if how metaphorical or like imagistic that is, that language, but just the point to say that we are not in a competition with one another. We are all in God's family. He loves all of us and wants all of us to repent because we all need repentance and relationship with him on it in such a deep way. And so I I like what you're saying, Ben, about like humility being this essential factor, and especially when we come to one another with with issues, with problems, we have to be approaching one another out of love and out of humility because that's that's the model that Christ gives us. And we all want to be, we all have that human tendency of like someone cut me off, or I deserve to be an X position or Y position, or you know, I've done this laundry list of things that make me quote unquote deserving, you know. But the scripture says, none are righteous before God, all have fallen short of his glory. And a thing that my friend Andre, who we were talking about earlier, said it's like by all rights, we should all be in hell, right? Like, in a way, right? Like, without God's grace and mercy, none of us deserve his to be in the presence of his holiness. It's all it's a gift, and we're blessed to receive his love and his grace and his mercy. And so that's a tough realization to like humble yourself to that degree, but like it's a leveling thing where like God alone is righteous and worthy. We are here to serve his kingdom, we're here to serve one another. Those are the two greatest commandments. Serve and love God, serve and love one another as you love yourself. And if we can stick to those those principles, it's it's so basic, and yet like we just lose the plot constantly.

SPEAKER_04 50:58

Well, we talked about the on like Peter getting out of the boat, and as long as you stay focused on God, you're gonna be fine. As soon as you turn away and look at the waves or the storm, you're going to sink.

SPEAKER_05 51:12

You're walking on water. You're walking on water. We talked about this with faith. You know, when the I love this, we call it the Hall of Fame of faith in Hebrews 11. You talk about Abraham and and Mo Moses and Isaac. He gets through all the lists, and at the end he says, These people, they were they they kept the faith essentially. They didn't see the promise. They got something better. You keep your eyes on God, you're walking on water.

SPEAKER_08 51:38

They got continuous promises, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 51:40

Walking on water, you're you're not just you know, not drowning. You're there's a there's a they they receive something even greater than what they could ever hope to expect to see here.

SPEAKER_04 51:55

And I think with Jesus that we're grafted into that covenant, like we only get there through Jesus to that covenant, to the eternal salvation. Like without Jesus, we don't get to the you know, to the final in line. And that's the nice thing about us having the Bible and the complete story that we know salvation's won, we know where we're going, and you know, we can keep stay focused on Jesus and you know, do the things that we know he's beaten death and Satan and all the things.

SPEAKER_02 52:29

It's so nice to have a book that if you read a little bit every day you would still know nothing about. Like the the the grand the the grand scheme. Like there there are still I guess what what I'm trying to say is like there are there's gonna be different perceptions of every story that's in there. And that's I think that's what that's the coolest thing about the book. Yeah, you'll get something different every time. You read it in different translations, you're gonna get something different out of it. And it's it that's another thing that we do that I think is awesome. Like you spend a week on each different interpretation of it, man, and you there's a there's a different story to be told. Going back to what you said earlier, that that was a big thing for me, also. Is there's there there's so many better than thou people out there, man, that that just I w I wish there was a way to stop it. I wish there was a way to just make people understand, like, dude, when we get to heaven, there's not platinum to your heaven members. Like, there's not that there's not you're not platinum gold. There's like, dude, we're all in heaven together. Like it doesn't matter what you did here, we're gonna be there together. It that's that that's one of the one of the things that drove me away for a long time.

SPEAKER_08 53:37

I will add this real quick.

SPEAKER_07 53:39

I think that that brings up a something that I've been very cognizant of in my own life, is becoming what I'm becoming what I'm preaching against, becoming what I stand against.

SPEAKER_05 53:57

Because and I think this is okay, we've made it to a place where we're we we're understanding the church, we're understanding love and the and the what is love and how are we to treat one another, how are we to love God and and love our neighbor. That that's the foundation, that's where we're gonna get to. Then you add that layer of of of living with one another, co you know, getting along with one another, how do you uh you know approach one another? And then you move on to I think this is another big stumbling block becoming exactly what you were preaching against, but or becoming exactly what you were against from the beginning, but just from a different way. Because then you go into, you know, like like Kyle just said, you know, the holier than now folks. It's so easy to get to a place where you identify who those folks are and think yourself better than them because I've discovered grace, I've discovered faith and all of these things. But then I'm not really love it's it's loving those people you disagree with is the main point. Not of just avoiding them, not just learning to get along, loving them, they're your neighbor, loving them, praying for those who persecute you, who you know, love your enemy type of thing. It's so easy, and I I I I say I'm I'm very sensitive to it because I feel like I have fallen down that trap. I feel like okay, I've grown in this area, and then I can look over at this group and be glad I'm not part of that group anymore. Oh, I just fell back into what I was trying to escape. I just created a whole new version of it, and that's a big part where I think a lot of people we all, myself especially, have to be very cognizant of because you're not gaining any great, you're just in a loop at that point.

SPEAKER_04 55:56

And I think like the other day we had on Bible Boys group text, like somebody was like real raw and real, just like I'm struggling today with this. And in that group text, it was just like I thought we were all like on the yeah, I thought we were all like good with Jesus and stuff, and he was like just real raw, and it was just like I stopped and prayed, and I know I know you did. I did, and uh, I don't know about you in your prayer like I just played.

SPEAKER_05 56:26

Oh sorry, Robbie's mic just got unplugged, but I don't know what happened.

SPEAKER_03 56:30

We're Robbie and I are always blowing up that text thread. Yeah, Ben is hard at work.

SPEAKER_05 56:35

I fall behind, I don't always get caught up fully, but I try I try this thing.

SPEAKER_03 56:40

Yeah, Bible Boys is early morning to late night. Well, to your point, I think like you know, that that was that was an example. I I do remember that now where yeah, basically just like a friend, a friend of a friend we don't I don't even know I don't even know the guy, but a friend of a friend going through a hard time.

SPEAKER_05 56:57

Some of those some of those numbers on that group out I still haven't identified. I don't really know.

SPEAKER_03 57:02

We don't know them. I don't think we know. Yeah. This is a friend of it's a I believe it's a friend of Andre's, yeah, essentially. It's a unique group. Just just an interesting thread of like guys who are trying to follow Jesus and just drop in links to like here's a post about God, here's you know, here's a verse of the day kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02 57:21

Not cool enough yet.

SPEAKER_03 57:22

We'll loop in you and we're gonna make some algorithmic algorithmic contributions. But no, I think like the the but for me in that moment I and this is like a a this is a psalm that's been like really meaningful to me is Psalm 13. There's there's like such a there's such a temptation from the enemy to make us feel helpless. And it's a helplessness either rooted in anxiety, it can be a helplessness that's rooted in strife and conflict with other people, it can be a helplessness in life circumstance and sickness and and pain. It can be a helplessness of like all I see is judgmentalism from the church. Whatever the angle of helplessness, like there's no place for me. I don't have an advocate to turn to that's pulling you away from your closeness with Christ. That is the helplessness that the enemy wants to place you in. And we have to resist that with everything we've got. And so for me, Psalm 13 is like just this amazing, short, short like passage of scripture that where David is just laying it out and he and he just gives you this like beautiful and simple key to dealing with helplessness. I love that psalm. And I sent it to that friend in that text, and I hope that he read it.

SPEAKER_04 58:48

He said meditate deeply. Yeah, and I was like, oh, that's strong.

SPEAKER_03 58:52

Dude, yeah, that one's been really helpful for me.

SPEAKER_05 58:54

So thinking in those terms like you just described, thinking in those terms of the devil being at work and the devil making feel those ways of helplessness or hopelessness, whatever C.S. Lewis screw tape letters.

SPEAKER_04 59:09

Just read it on vacation last week.

SPEAKER_05 59:11

I mean that when awesome. Because that's a that's an angle. I always, I guess I've always come from a place of it's me, right? It's me, I I'm flawed, I have to fix my flaws, I have to but he does such a great job. Uh go to Psalms first, obviously. But yeah, screw tapes, screw tape letters is a very it he did, it was such a great way to open your mind to thinking in that way. Very unique way of doing it.

SPEAKER_04 59:38

Don't I think he says don't let him replace yeah, replace it with something else, don't let him replace it with Jesus. Yeah, don't let him place it with scripture. And I like he's like, just give him something else that he can grasp onto. Let him go to church, but let him think this. And it goes on and on. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 59:55

Oh, with all these different ways. And and even C.S. Lewis writes at the end, like he had to stop because if he ventured any further down that you know writing from that standpoint, he he's like, I was scared to go any further. But quick plug, Benjamin Book Journal. If you want some quick excerpts from that book, WordPress.net. Yeah, go Benjamin Book Journal. There's some excerpts from it just to kind of give you an a little bit of insight into that book. If uh it's very brief.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:22

Yeah, it's about three hours, just three hours. But there's uh yeah, knocked it out in like one trip.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:27

But it's a very unique take, and it really will get you thinking in those, and it'll change the way you think about your approach to yourself.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:35

He wants, you know, the enemy wants you to feel helpless, and whatever that way is, he comes at you from different angles. But you know, Jesus gives us the model when he's in the desert and he's being tempted after his baptism. Satan comes at him and he just hits him with scripture every time.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:52

And that guy came back and said on that on that thread, he said, I'm thankful for the scripture you gave, and I'm thankful for y'all praying for me. Like he felt the presence and yeah, man. I think that happened this week, so that's kind of cool. It's kind of cool to be a part of.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:09

Can I ask a uh maybe a specific question? I don't know if you guys will have an answer for this right off the bat, but do you do you remember a time in your life where you you are because I think maybe this is just me, but I I usually have an answer to in to to any situation that might come up. And whether it take it takes me a little bit of time to get there, but that that time where you you felt hopeless, where you something happened and you saw no way out. And it like and you find like that just one of those rare times where you you finally hit that point where you're like, I just I have to give it to God. Like that's the only way out. I don't know if you guys have one like a specific you you can think of off the top of the club.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:55

Thorn of the flesh, hit it, Taylor.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:58

Yeah, I man, this is getting real. Thorn in the flesh first. Yeah, so that's 2 Corinthians chapter 12, I believe. Where Paul like Ben is describing, he's just he he says that he has this thorn in his flesh, it won't go away. He's prayed to God about it. And what does God tell him? What does God tell him? He says, My grace is sufficient for you. For my power is perfected in weakness. Most gladly, therefore, I will boast in my weaknesses that the power of Christ may be strong within me. And that to me, man, that scripture just hits every time. Like I I have to answer your question, I have been in those moments for sure. You know, I struggle with mental health issues and have been in some very dark places myself, places that I've even now looking back, like I would even in some of those years of my life where I was really not following God closely at all, I see how he was guiding me to this very moment that we're in. Even when I was not being faithful to him, he was still guiding me, still providing me a way out. Like I, you know, I've opened up to some people about that and and had some some time to reflect on moments where I, you know, by all rights, I could I could not be here at this table.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:24

Could not, you know, could not have made it just out of those moments with my life. But I I I think that the realization is that we are being refined.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:40

We're all in a constant process of being refined. And yeah, and we have to go through the fire sometimes. And it it's just it's it's painful, you know, it can be really painful. And suffering, you know, I don't God does not want us to suffer. I I firmly believe that He doesn't want us to suffer in the sense that He doesn't want sin for us, He wants full union and unity between us and Him. He wants a restored relationship. That's why He sent His Son.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:09

Well, He wants you to identify sin and He wants you to be able to turn and deal with the sin. Right. And if you're not dealing with the sin, like you know, addictions or whatever it is, or whatever it is, and you don't deal with it, then you you know you you're yearning for something that you've got to go deal with. You know, it's just uh it's so interesting.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:34

Real quick to answer your question too, and I want to build up what Ted was that that verse, that line from God to Paul, My grace is sufficient. I just I keep storing away and I keep repeating myself. I'm in that moment right now.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:49

I've been in that moment what I feel feels like for almost two years. And it has been it's been a long slog.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:01

That verse and you may not y'all may not even know that you know that I'm at that place of I don't know what to do. And and the reason is because there's peace. There's peace to be found. And and what's got me to that dark place of just helplessness, hopelessness is mainly from a worldly standpoint of you know the pressures of being a father, a husband, and and and providing it to you.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:32

Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:32

Big and what happens is yeah, I'm praying fervently, like Paul, remove this thorn of my in my flesh. Lord, take this away from me. I cannot do this. You only you can. And I'm just over and over for for months that turned in uh weeks turned into months turned into years.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:54

Yeah, like with a job, yeah. Like with it, my job is just like you know, I started, I was looking for a job for a Couple months and then I found a job, and then now I'm six months in. It's like, okay, God, this is not what you have for me, but I'm gonna show up tomorrow and bless who I can bless. And you know, I know this is not the end game, but this is what I gotta do to get to, you know. I know you're working on me, I know you're trying to use me and you know, mold me and put scripture in my and like the time that I have.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:26

And that's the thing. When I started out, when that when the moment really started to set in, those feelings started to set in, you're praying with an expectation. You're praying with you're you're asking for help and you have in mind what the answer is, what the what the you know result would be that you know would solve your problem. And the more fervently and the deeper I get into that prayer, the more I start to realize like what my original one, what my original expectation was is probably not what I needed.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:06

And two, I've been in a I've been in this moment for like I said, a couple of years now.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:12

He's still providing. I'm still here. I am and you come you start to come to a place of peace. And it still weighs on me, it it still brings me down, uh, you know, but it's it's getting easier. And the you know, the problems haven't been solved fully, but but there's hope, but most of all there's peace. And I think that the peace that surpasses all understanding. You can feel it and that better than I can describe it.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:45

You know, to kind of to go back, and this is this has been part of my healing journey here. So I I I I told you a little bit there. So September of 2024, I was working in a restaurant and woke up one morning, September 12th, 2024, and woke up, got on, got on Facebook, did my usual morning scroll, kind of going through. I usually check, you know, traffic reports, anything like that, try to see if I need to go an alternate route, whatever. Find out I don't have a job anymore. My red my my job caught on fire overnight, burned to the ground. I was like, man, that sucks, right? So being a man, you know, pulled myself, you you you know, you can dwell on it, but you gotta get to work, right? So you you gotta figure this out because now I gotta provide, right? So I pumped out 72 applications and resumes in 48 hours. Oh didn't did nothing but just pow, pow, pow, pow, pow. Yeah, yeah, well, not to brag, buddy, but you're sitting across from a I got six interviews out of it. So I don't know what that means.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:50

I'm singing my resume, I need to sharpen it up because mine did not get responses like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:54

No, buddy. No, I said I pumped out 72. I got six interviews out of it. I didn't mean chicken salad chicken salad chick didn't even call me.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:03

I could see a six-foot chicken salad chick, Gabe.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:06

What's 672? 672nd as a fraction?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:11

I don't know. Oh and then so seven days later, September 19th, I was playing softball and dislocated my knee. Straight from the dude, like I'm talking kneecap facing to the right. You were just playing softball unemployed? Playing slow pitch softball unemployed. Just trying, but that that was my happy place for the longest time. Dude, softball was I don't have time to play when I'm employed. It's like how only golf when it's during business time.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:46

I'm not gonna use my own time to golf.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:48

It used to be my escape. Uh and there that's a whole different rabbit hole again, but softball got me out of some serious trouble back in the day. But uh so now I'm unemployed, and now I have a severe lower body injury. And when I tell you, man, I cursed God on every level. And for like two or three weeks, I was like, I even at one point was laying at home one day by myself while my wife is out there grinding, taking our kids to school, picking them up, doing everything herself, keeping us afloat. I'm unemployed and I'm laid in bed, like with an injury, and that like like thinking, like, dude, I'm so glad I don't own a firearm right now. Like, legitimately, and and and I'm at this low point in my life, and I'm looking, I'm look looking up at my ceiling, and I'm like, dude, I'm done with you. I'm done. Like, I've done nothing but try to live my life for you, and I'm I'm just I'm done. I don't like I don't know why you're doing this to me. I don't know why you're targeting me, but I'm just this whole thing, like we're done. And that was that was where my relationship with God got to that point, and I'm not afraid to share that because I I you you fast forward to just about a month or two ago, I had another situation come up where dude, I didn't I was hopeless. I had no answer. And you you remember this. I I I went home by myself one night, just turned off the lights, and I laid in my bed and I just I breathed. And it was the the first time, like, and I was uh I was unwell, man.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:14

Like I was very I was I was really worried. I because he asked to leave early and almost didn't want him to go because I I felt like need to be super violent. Like, dude, no, I stay where I can see you kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:27

I just and and I ended up sticking it out. I I ended up working that day, and I and I was you got through the day have made things worse. But I I went home and I just sat in the dark that night by myself and I just I breathed and I was like, all right, dude, this this is it. I need you. I need you. And it and it happened, you know, like uh we we found a way out of it where it was we get a little emotional. Oh I I dude, I had no like there were there was no way out of it, man. And somehow, like today, like I'm in a beautiful new truck. And I have no it doesn't it doesn't happen, man. It's not supposed to happen, right? It's it's it's unnatural, but it's so natural at the same time. And I just I'm I'm so thankful for number one, obviously for God and Jesus and being able to pray, but uh obviously I'm really grateful for my growth and how I'm how I was able to handle that situation. And right now, you know, we're staring down the barrel of another issue. We we we have until the end of June to either buy my grandfather's home or you know, move out, and it's it's kind of looking like it's not gonna happen. And that and that and it hurts, you know, but I you know I don't I don't have an answer for that, but I'm trying to have you asked for help? And do you know how to ask for help? No, absolutely not. But but my only the only way I know how to ask is just to pray. That that's that that's my way of asking, man. That's if it's meant to be, if he wants it to be, then let my my prayer is if you want us to be here, you'll make it happen. My only request is if you don't, please start to light the other path so that I can find it.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:28

That's that it's called clarity. I need I need clarity.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:31

Yeah, I just need to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:32

You don't think we've been you don't think we've been there?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:34

Oh, dude, I know everybody's been there, but I'm I'm starting to learn that myself now. I'm starting to learn how to deal with that, and that's that's been my prayers. Like, if you don't want this, that's fine. All I can ask is for the sake of those two in there, like just help me figure out what's next. Start to light the path for what's next. Is it are we gonna have to move to another city? Are we gonna have to like I just need to know?

SPEAKER_05 1:13:59

And that's move to the beach and join GB and Lull time, full-time GBL'er, dude.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:05

G B Ler.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:06

I just want to say thank you for sharing it. Yeah, I really appreciate you opening up about that.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:10

Yeah, I I have been homeless before. Well, that won't happen. No, I got laid off and I had to move cities. And you know, you get laid off and you know, you go home and you have that long drive home, and you just have the severance check in your hand, and you know, you don't know what the future holds, and you know, I I would just say stay with Jesus, and you know, what you're going through is gonna make you closer to Jesus and your wife, and uh just stay the course because I yeah, I I when I got laid off, I didn't know the journey ahead, and you know, you've been over to my house, and you know, I never planned on owning that house when I got laid off that day, and you know, I never planned on any of that stuff, and so you just hold on to your wife, hold on to your kids. The advice I'm giving right now to people is you can get it done with a lot less square footage than you think you can. And you know, that's the you don't get caught up into big castles and big dreams and big things. Um it doesn't that doesn't take much to get by.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:29

I would I would say too. You you just described an answered prayer in a an amazing, yeah, unbelievable way.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:40

Those are such so important. One being aware of answered prayers. Yeah because those God showing his faithfulness to you in real time, recognizing that, keeping that with you, I think is I've I've already heard it in the way that you've explained this new struggle that this this new struggle with the house is lack of a better way of saying I guess maybe maybe it a little more palatable in a way because of the answer prayers, because of the faithfulness. You're you're navigating this this because this isn't a new struggle, this this this new adversity that's coming up. I mean, we're getting closer to that deadline, but this is something that you know you is been in your yeah, yeah. But uh just the way hearing you talk about it now is a lot different than when you talk about it, you know, a few months ago. And because you've now have been reassured of the faithfulness of God. And like you said, because Lacey and I are in a I'm not gonna get into the details, Lacey and I are in a similar situation where we have a desire, but we're giving it over to God. And if if it's meant to happen, it will he'll allow it to happen. And it's just like you said, and I and I kind of like that. Just Lord, give me the clarity to to navigate if the answer, whatever it is.

unknown 1:17:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:09

Thumbs up or thumbs down. Let me help. Let me know.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:13

In the magnitude of uh it the square footage thing, I it's just to explain, like it's it's my it's my grandpa's house, and I I don't want that to go to anybody else. And it's either we buy it or it's gonna get sold to somebody else, and it's kind of the it's the last thing I have because I lost because his tra it was his truck I was driving when I got hit by the drunk driver, which I didn't go into detail of tonight. But it's for me, it's like that's the person I was closest to in my life, and this is the last thing I have. And the house is it it's absolutely perfect for us. It's it's got three bedrooms, and it's got a bonus room, which I use as a studio. When you when I lay out a home that we in a fenced in yard, like if you were to ask me, like, lay out the perfect home for for your situation, it would be exactly where I'm at right now. So it it there's there's just a little bit more to it. Like, because man, I I could yeah, we could do it in a single bedroom apartment. Like, I I have no qualms to that. Like, I've lived in we got a spare room. Yeah, I gotta I gotta I gotta spare 2500 square feet. I've slept under the total round, dude. I slept under the halfway bridge for three months. Like I'm I have no like I'm good, man. Like I can figure I can figure life out, but there's just a little bit it's a little bit deeper. And and it's starting to look like it's probably not gonna happen, and that and and that sucks. But again, my my prayer is if it's not, I can accept it. I just need the alternative to start to show itself to me so that I can make sure that mine that that mine are taken care of and making sure that you know I can do the best I can to find that alternate route. Just became a Kyle's complaining podcast. Not at all. You guys want to hear the rest of my problems? Well, my back. I got a few. I got a fumes in my toe. Athlete's foot. I appreciate you guys letting me uh vent there. No, of course not. If you want to donate, it's yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:15

I got a goat bear.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:22

I just want to add I've I've been on the fence here because I I was as I was looking for my grace is sufficient. Uh there's strength and the weakness. I actually came across this verse. But I feel like this verse, you have to you have to be very conscientious of when you deliver it. There's timing to this verse. I think I'll just go ahead and read it and I hope it doesn't hit too hard.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:47

But God yeah, 1 Corinthians 10.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:52

I'm gonna start. Verse 13, no temptation has overtaken you except something common to mankind. And God is faithful. So he will not allow you to be tempted tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also so that you will be able to endure it.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:15

Is it 1013 you said? Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:17

1013. I know it that's talking temptation, and we're talking more of maybe not so much as temptation, we're talking more of expectation and and everything. But I love that part of you know, we hear this part all the time. He will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also so that you will be able to endure it. And I don't know, I felt like that would just jump out at me as I was looking for it. And I don't know if that helps it helped me a little bit to hear it. It was something I needed to hear in the moment.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:56

Writing them down so I can go back to them.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:59

Taylor.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:02

Yeah, I mean, I everyone else is bringing me a verse. What are you doing, Taylor?

SPEAKER_03 1:21:07

Psalm 13 is awesome, bro.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:09

You just opened it up now. I have that one in here. There we go.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:12

I wrote that one in the case. Psalms, really? That's a I even have Hall of Fame of Faith written down, Hebrews 11.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:17

Oh, yeah, that's a great one. But yeah, Psalm 13, like we were talking about earlier, that one kind of hits on a lot of what we've been talking about, like expectation and and like just feeling like you're under attack and that you're kind of struggling for a way out. Also, kind of like what what Ben is describing. And I I think it's like a really it's been one that's been really helpful to me. It this is a really powerful. It's I want to say only seven or eight verses, it's not super long.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:49

I've never heard it. Can you tell us about it?

SPEAKER_03 1:21:52

Yeah, I can I can I can hit you with it, bro. I want to hear it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:57

I've I've probably legitimately never heard it, so come on. This part's not a joke.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:03

How long, Lord?

SPEAKER_07 1:22:05

Will you forget me forever? How long will you hide your face from me? How long am I to feel anxious in my soul with grief in my heart all the day? How long will my enemy be exalted over me? Consider, please, Lord, and answer me. Enlighten my eyes, for I will sleep the sleep of death. My enemy will say, I have overcome him. And my adversaries will rejoice when I am shaken. But I have trusted in your faithfulness, and my heart will rejoice in your salvation, Lord. For you alone have looked after me. Any more questions?

unknown 1:23:08

I can't.

SPEAKER_07 1:23:08

I can't.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:09

I can tell you, bro. He's gonna look he's gonna look after you.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:12

He's gonna look after you, right? He's got you. It may not look exactly like you think, it often doesn't. Some weeks are harder than others, man, but he's he's got you. It's been a hard, it's been a hard week for me, too, just like we go through it. You know, sometimes life is just hits you like freight train. We all just gotta keep each other and in our prayers and lift each other up. But just really thankful for all the men at this table. There's a line from the office that comes to mind I am dead inside.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:49

I go back and forth between that and peace. Is it Kevin? Is it Kevin or Kyle? Carl. Carl. Carl. Um have you tried fasting? Like take. I'm just saying, like, like I would I would be I I we could take it to prayer and I would fast with you. I'll fast with you, bro. Over this topic. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:16

And uh let me you'll have to explain a little bit deeper because to me, fasting is like I'm a chunky boy and I'm like losing weight, I'm only eating from 2 to 8 p.m.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:25

So I haven't done a terrible lot of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:29

This is where my biblical ignorance does come in a little bit more because I I do feel like that I've heard this, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:34

So I haven't I haven't done a lot of it in my life, if you can't tell by the fullness of my three egg shirt.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:44

The fullness of my three X shirt. You're in they they used to say you're in a great shape.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:49

Great shape. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:51

Yeah. But I would I would come alongside of you and fast with you and and let God show up and fast. So fasting is uh we'll let Taylor explain.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:03

Yeah, when you say come along with, like, that's the I think the there's something not connected there, I think. Am I it could be because of midnight.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:11

Well, he's he's talking about doing it with you.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:14

So, like go, Taylor. Yeah, yeah, say it right. Say it in the right words, Taylor.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:20

Okay, I you're putting me really on the spot here. To go back, kind of like the large theme here that we had talked about a little bit earlier, probably pre-podcast, was sacrifice, right? And so this is like I'm gonna try and condense this as much as I can because it's getting late. But you know, in the garden, we're given a gift from God. We take the gift, we collectively, how many of all of us have done it? We take God's gifts, we don't steward them the right way, we assume that the gift is more important than the giver, God, we prioritize the gift over the giver, we take our blessings, we take all the things we've been given in life, and we selfishly disrespect and disregard God's command. We eat the fruit that we're not supposed to eat. It all ties into this idea of where does that leave us after that fall, after we've prioritized the wrong things, where are we left? What God consistently shows us is that He wants us to sacrifice to Him in a way that brings us back into right relationship with Him. And so throughout the Old Testament, there are all these animal sacrifices, right? And it's this long narrative of these commandments and laws that humans can't keep, these sacrifices that are continually being made on these altars for God, these attempts to gain bright relationship with God again. And all the while God is pointing us towards what he's about to do, which is bringing bring his son to our earth to be the once and for all sacrifice that's described in the Gospels and reiterated as we've been discussing in the book of Hebrews in such a powerful way, and that his sacrifice makes us right once and for all with him. A microcosm of sacrifice is present every day in every choice we make. So we're always choosing in in some small or often seemingly insignificant way what we're giving and bringing to God. It could be something as simple as I want X and I know God doesn't want it for me. Do I do X or do I choose Y instead? Knowing that God would prefer me to choose Y. You feel that conviction, His Holy Spirit, He is moving in you saying, Dying to self-Dying to self. Take up your cross and follow me. Don't do the thing that the world is telling you to do. Do the thing that my Holy Spirit is moving in with within within you and encouraging you to do, which is going to bring you in closer into right relationship with me. Fasting is a way for us to really sacrifice. To God, and in and I don't mean to you know butcher this at all. Uh you know, it's getting late, but for me, it's a way for us to really bring that sort of I'm trying to be in a right relationship with God and draw close to him into like hyper focus. And so there fasting is mentioned throughout the Bible, Old Testament and New. It's it's it's kind of just this ancient time-tested practice of giving up what you really desire, which often is food because we do it's so essential to what we do, giving up something you really desire and want and crave and need, genuinely, in order for you to refocus on what really matters, which is that God is in charge and providing everything, including every meal you eat, every breath in your lungs, it can go out like a light. My Sabrina and I have been reading the light just went out. Sabrina and I have been reading the book of Daniel, and we were literally yesterday in a chapter where Nebuchadnezzar's son, who becomes the king, Belthazar, there's a hand that writes on the wall of his palace. It's essentially this mysterious hand of God moment, and he brings in Daniel, who Daniel and the Lion's den. Daniel is this interpreter of dreams, this interpreter of symbols, and he he's he's been elevated in Babylon, this ancient kingdom that took over Israel. He's been elevated to this position of like a wise man who can interpret these things. And he tells Beltazar, God is gonna take your kingdom away from you, and it's gonna be over for you in Babylon, essentially. And that very night he is assassinated and killed. That is a tiny little microcosm of how quickly God can act in situations and how when he says he's gonna move, he moves sometimes slowly and sometimes really dramatically. For me, when I think of fasting practices, it is a way for me to refocus on that truth that God is totally sovereign and in control. Yeah, and I don't know what the outcome is gonna be when I enter a period of fasting. I have no idea. I don't know if he's gonna answer my prayer in the way that I want or in the way I would answer it. I don't know if it's gonna be a totally radically different thing, but one thing I can be certain of is that when I sacrifice intensely to God in order to bring myself into a closer and right relationship with him, it gets really like profound and deep and powerful immediately, basically. I you know, I'm not that experienced in it, but you know, I do think that there the times in my life when I have fasted have been times of deep spiritual renewal, times of often of deep insight and spiritual growth, and times of great change of circumstance in my life.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:59

And and I would say that me coming on or uh me and Taylor coming alongside of you, we're just saying that we will set a time aside. If you we can explain more of this off air or whatever, but if you want to spiritually give this to God, we will intervene our spirits with you to you know let God give you clarity on what to do next. And you know, you're not the only one on a housing crisis or buying a house. I mean, I got another buddy that is in the same boat. I mean, he just said it this week, and you know, it's just there that is a real thing. And you know, I like I said, I've been there, I've moved in with my parents. You know, it's it's not, it's not I would tell you God's gonna show up. I just don't know how and why and why he does the things he does, but he's gonna show up for your life and he's gonna he's gonna be faithful.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:00

When you when you start giving back to God and sacrificing to God, fasting being a a significant example of self-sacrifice to doing doing it for God and to God, he sees it and acknowledges it. Not always in the way you expect him to, but it happens.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:16

I think that's the thing to emphasize. It's not I'm doing this out of he's gonna give me what I want. Absolutely not. Almost like a self-refinement kind of thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:26

Refining my my thoughts and your eyes, your judgment, your your like that clarity just gets it gets when you start taking like you you can do a food fest, or you can do I'm not gonna eat bread for until I see movement, or you can do, you know, and uh, you know, you just you get you I have never not gotten clarity. I'm not saying it's like a genie on a bottle, but I'm just saying it's like I have never gotten cle not gotten clarity on what I was supposed to be doing.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:01

And I would emphasize for anyone listening and and also for for all of us at the table, like it is really key to have in mind when going into a period of fasting, should you choose to do that with God, to be very rooted in scripture the whole time and in prayer the whole time. Like I use periods of fasting if I'm hungry. Every time I feel a hunger pain, if I'm fasting, prayer immediately. I force myself to do it. Even if I'm like in the car distracted, whatever, even if I'm like at the line at a grocery at the grocery store, I'm like, if I'm fasting and I'm feeling like I need to do something here, like in this moment, it to deal with my my desire, my my fleshly urge to X, Y, or Z, like I have to pray in that moment. It's it can be a powerful tool for like drawing close to God, especially in moments where you're feeling an a need for for clarity, like he's saying, a need for closeness. So yeah. Sorry, that was a little long-winded, but hey, you did great.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:01

I could you repeat that? I couldn't have done it with all the scripture base.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:07

No, I mean And I'm sure there's probably more to it that I I mean I've probably got a thousand questions about it that I'll ask off the air eventually. Yeah. Just so I can make sure I want to make sure that I know that I've got a full grasp on it before I get you, you know, you don't want to step into something that serious without having a firm grasp of it.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:29

We can't we can't talk about it once we start a scripture, right? What he's playing.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:37

The first rule of fight glove. That's right after you you can tell someone what you wish for when you blow out the candles that doesn't come through. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:44

I don't know that. Once now that we've talked about it, we can't really talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:48

Fair enough.

unknown 1:34:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:50

Fight glove.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:52

Well, man, this is such great stuff. It's so hard to shift into okay, we're done. You know, at least we came full circle to sacrifice.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:01

We did.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:02

We did, and I was gonna yeah, and I and I was gonna fasting's a big sacrifice, it's hard. I was gonna try to close the circle a little bit more to put to put a cap on what we've been talking talking about with Kyle here. One more verse for that, and then I got a cap for the going back to the agape love and church stuff real quick. And again, this one Yeah, I I I've look Lacey is very sensitive to this as far as like someone struggling. She's been there, we've been there, we've talked about past episodes. When you someone's struggling, you want to be very cautious. She's had people come up to her and say, you know, well, God you know, what is it? Like God works in mysterious ways, or or God has a purpose or a reason for that. That's true, but you've got to be very tactful in how you approach that because sometimes that can be uh more d you know, discouraging sometimes in a way. I know that sounds odd. Or to feel dismissive. I know what you mean.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:56

Yeah, dismissive. I think that's more what it is.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:58

I think this verse is very uh pertinent and I hope it helps. I but I'm very conscientious of I I hope it's not like the wrong time. But James, James chapter one, verse two. Verse two through four, real quick. Consider it all joy, my brothers and sisters. When you encounter when you encounter various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance, and let endurance have its perfect result so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. And I wanted to give some time. I I I found I remember that verse as you were reciting psalms. And I was like, I can't follow that psalm with that. Yeah, I gotta give it, I gotta give it some time to breathe. But and and and as we're closing here, just to put a cap and kind of go back a little bit to where we we kind of began with the church and you know, church, hurt, church burn, and how's what is the church and you know, loving God, loving your neighbor, what is love, what is that gap they love? Yeah, I read from Corinthians earlier uh as far as what is it love. But I love I I love how John puts it. The way John again, this is gonna be very familiar. First John chapter four, starting verse seven. You think of it in these terms, not in the terms of a wedding, but you think of it in terms of what is I'm supposed to do, how do I love my neighbor, and what is love? Love, let's love one another, for love is from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. The one who does not love does not know God because God is love.

SPEAKER_07 1:37:43

By this, the love of God has revealed in us that God has sent his only son into the world so that we may so that we may live through him. In this is love. Not that we love God, but that he loved us and sent his son to be the propitiation for our sins.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:13

Loved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

SPEAKER_07 1:38:18

That's first John what?

SPEAKER_02 1:38:19

Four You know, I think No, I was just gonna say I the mine was just completely off topic. Like I didn't I was putting my tabs in my Bible because this is the first time in my life that I've owned a Bible of my own. I didn't realize I didn't know there was a John, and then a first John, second John. Yeah just funny little tidbit there. Still learning, still learning. The book of Ezra.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:42

There's a third John tip. You said third John.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:44

I did not.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:45

So that's the joke. I just sent to Lee, man. We brought this up in the episode with my brother and my sister-in-law. So my dad, my granddad uh was John Sr. Our dad is John, my older brother's Jonathan. So yeah, first the joke's always been first, second, third John, and then we have my nephew, Jude. And then, you know, what a revelation.

SPEAKER_08 1:39:07

What's that revelation?

SPEAKER_07 1:39:09

How's that? Yeah, it's a whole what's a not trilogy, what's a four-parter? Oh, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:17

Is there such a thing? Saga? A saga. The saga. The Maxwell saga.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:22

Team John, right? That's right. Foot of the cross.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:26

I'm Team Matthew. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:27

Well, yeah, it's more complete, you know, more precise. If we do you want to run through gratitude real quick? Yeah, sure. If you want to. Yeah, let's I'll I'll start out real quick. I I want to say that I'm grateful for Robbie.

SPEAKER_07 1:39:42

I gave Kyle love last time. I'll give Robbie some love because we joke about Is it a joke?

SPEAKER_04 1:39:51

Am I a joke?

SPEAKER_05 1:39:52

Am I a joke to you? Yeah. I do laugh a lot. I do laugh a lot. No, it's not that it's like you have those people where you're like oil and water, you just don't mix. I had those people but you and there's there's tension sometimes, but not in a negative way, and that and and I just want to say, and it's uh a lot of it has to do with you and and your intentionality. I'll give you a lot of credit for that because you really you sparked that intentionality about intentionality in me.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:22

Uh and you're going to the early 20s, the 2023s where I just had to get intentional, like I had to change my life. Right. And I'm past, I mean I'm down the road from that, but like I had to figure out how to get scripture into my life, and I had to be very intentional of from from somebody that has visual dyslexia. I had to figure out how to get it involved, and you know, I know that's the error you're pulling from. Um, because I was preaching attention, like you've got to be intentional about getting scripture, and I I just I I'm passionate about I haven't said my my trigger word or my my plug, but I'm not gonna say it.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:07

But well, I just I I just wanted to say too that it not only have you sparked you know certain things like positive good work and encouragement, but the fact that I I I I really admire this in others, those who even though I show my rump and I you can be very passionate sometimes about stuff. And even though I don't always approach it the best way, and I'm learning and and trying really hard, but I still fall short, and the fact that even when I do that, man, you're still you're still Robbie from moment to moment, day to day. And although I'm begging you to change, don't change Don't change. Don't change, don't change, but okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:55

I'm unique. I'm unique. Uh I have unique characteristics that uh I'm just not for everybody. And uh like I just I'm just out here trying to he's an acquired taste. Acquired taste. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:09

Me and you, Robbie. Heaven's trash crew, heaven's trash crew.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:13

We're on we're on duty, bro. Let's go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:19

I love you, man.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:20

No, I'm I think for being here, I am the old man in the room. Like I've I've been through, you know, the struggle and I've been I've seen God be faithful, and you know, it's just He is faithful and you know I I believe in stuff that you can't imagine and I know that He'll show up and show out just like we show up and show out and just I'm passionate about this and I try to live it and it's fun living it with people that understand it what's realer than real.

SPEAKER_05 1:42:54

So people that are convicted to to change or not you're not just changed, but just want to be better and want to be closer to God, most of all.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:03

Yeah, thinking that right. And live different live set apart too. I think setting apart, yeah. Yeah, setting apart with scriptures different.

SPEAKER_08 1:43:10

What what are you gr grateful for?

SPEAKER_04 1:43:14

Right now I'm just grateful like for technology. Come on, man. I just gave you a chance. Like, I just I'm grateful for technology, like for my kids' leg and all that, and like just being able to see my wife today and like FaceTime, you know, she's like eight, nine hundred miles apart, and you know, just I only saw her for a quick second, but and she kind of gave me a little wink or something, and it was like, you know, I don't it's just technology's good, you can use it for bad, you know. I I just grateful for technology. This, you know, this I don't know how far this is gonna go, you know. Those people in Virginia, you know, I hope that they can take some of this and be encouraged.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:57

We're gonna start doing a second episode in Vietnamese, because that that's picking up.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:01

Yeah, maybe one day we can get, you know, Bible project was translated into 52 languages.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:08

Right on Vietnam. Let's go.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:11

Good morning. I think there are 52 languages, all their videos have been translated into.

SPEAKER_05 1:44:16

Um, but you know, and real quick too, just uh we we plugged this last episode, Tanner, your son. Um you gotta go check out Tanner's exciting steps. Uh exciting steps. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:28

And uh I don't know where the name came from.

SPEAKER_05 1:44:32

Robbie's involved in his church. His family.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:36

Yeah, medical, my family, not me.

SPEAKER_07 1:44:39

Spiritual, I got you. Taylor? I'm feeling grateful for Kyle right now.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:49

Back to back. No, I yeah, man. I just appreciate your openness, your honesty. I know it's not easy, especially as a group of men, to always be open and honest about emotional things. I I think it's fair to say that most men struggle with that at times and your openness and willingness to share about some of the struggles you've been going through. I just admire that vulnerability. It's inspiring to me and be praying for you. And if you genuinely, I echo what Robbie said. You know, if there's anything we can do to come alongside you, I'll I already do pray for you and we'll continue to pray for you about specific things and continue to pray for your boys and for Rachel. I just appreciate your patience with us tonight, too, as we were diving off the deep end and and just talking about all kinds of you know heavy and difficult topics and just fiery, fiery, fiery topics. That was Robin, it was it was trigger words. It was it was really cool to see you open up that way and just love you, man. And see I I echo again what Sabrina said. You know, you you really do like he lives in you, the Holy Spirit is with you, he's guiding your steps, and you ask for that clarity. I'm confident that that will come in his time. So I'll be praying for you, man. Love you, dude.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:21

Love you too. And I I'm for my gratitude, since this is kind of our closing, not kind of, I would hope we're not gonna be. We're going right into the witching hour. I'm grab very, very grateful to have the opportunity to come in here and sit down and not only discuss real life situations with men that uh three men that I look up to, and and I mean that genuinely. Uh like a hundred percent. Like it's some of you in the I'm able to do that professionally and personally, and it it it's it means a lot to me. If it's anything like we've ever done, I'm probably not gonna get invited back, Robbie. But it it's a good thing. It's true, it's true. But no, I I am extremely grateful to have the opportunity to come in here tonight and do a do a little bit of listening and just kind of try to soak up some knowledge. I I wrote down a lot of Bible verses tonight that I I've probably heard, but I have no had no idea how to cross-reference them, and I'm excited to go do some individual research on these. I'm I am I am somebody that's always tried to to learn from the people that that command that respect. And I'm somebody that I I know a lot of people don't like this, but I love to be a follower. I do not I cannot follow people that do not warrant it though. And I feel a hundred percent comfortable in following I and it's like and and that's and I get that, I get that, but following you into that world and following you into that walk, like being on that walk with you, even if I am like behind you, letting you guys lead me, like lead me to where I need to go. I didn't like the fasting, like I didn't I need like I need to have my hand held. You know what I mean? I I need to know what that means. So I am extremely grateful to have the opportunity to be here tonight. I appreciate you having me on, Ben. I I hope that we get to do this again. I hope that we I mean we have some projects coming down the road that I'm I that is pretty much what we did tonight that I'm really excited to get into, and I would love to have these two men on one of those episodes when we do get that rolling.

SPEAKER_05 1:48:33

Yeah, and and profile is a faith, by the way. Uh we've brought it up a couple times. Kyle and I just did our first interview Wednesday night, so we're looking to lock down another one next week, and we'll start getting those ready. And I want to say thank you for that. Having you as part of that has been fantastic. But I also want to say that to everybody part of the small group, Kyle, you you can come on small group whenever you want, man. You are the godfather of small group because it would not exist without there was so much behind the scenes for us.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:09

Did he send you the link for these nice mics?

SPEAKER_05 1:49:12

Is that I no, that was that was something I did on my own. Yeah, he did everything else. Uh but that I'll take I'll take the notes of that.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:19

I just lead the horse the water, man.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:21

I can't make him drink.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:49:23

But but no, I just you you've done so much behind the scenes without any really any true real credit. Uh I'm sorry, I have I can't give you enough credit, but I'll I'll try to give you credit when when I can and and just want to say thank you. You are a part of small group. Robbie's a visitor.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:41

And you're the outsider, buddy. I've been mentioned more times on uh small group than anybody outside. So just choose keeping track of that.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:57

And that happened the first time your name was dropped. So

SPEAKER_05 1:50:02

Guys, thank you again. Thank you for uh for being here and sharing your wisdom and uh and all you know and uh our listeners uh what everything that we we talked about a lot of stuff, a lot of really good deep stuff. Anybody who you know Hal's testimony, which really is what he shared tonight. If you want to connect with Hal, if you want to connect with Robbie, uh or even you know help with containers exciting stuff. If you want to if you want to get involved, if you want to serve, if you want to connect in any way on that we'll we can help connect you to them uh individually. Uh just reach out to us. Yeah, all of our all of our contact information is in the description of the podcast. And uh if you're listening and and what we've said and brought up anything that you feel like somebody needs to hear, uh it would be an encouragement to them, please send us to them and let them know they can contact us. We're we're here to help. Um so just let us know. Uh and most of all, guys, just thank you for sticking around and being part of part of our small group. It means so much to us. And uh we'll see you next time.