Ep. 2 - Talkin' Favorite Bible Stories (Edited)

Benjamin, Lacey, Taylor, and Sabrina discuss the moments from the Bible that are most impactful to each of them personally (while trying not to get emotional). The topic of family relationships is also brought up, as we get to know more about Taylor in particular and the impact members of his family (his grandparents Sid & Betty) have made on all of them as examples of faith. Future topics and questions are brought up that each member of the group hope to explore in upcoming episodes, as well as a future project (Profiles of Faith) that will be coming soon. 

Thank you for joining in Small Group, and please feel free to participate with us by sending your thoughts, questions, or ideas by commenting, messaging, or by email (goat.bear.lobster@gmail.com). You can also reach out, and find out more about us, at our website: SmallGroupPodcast.wordpress.com. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:41

Welcome back to the Small Group Podcast. Thank you guys for joining us again. Hopefully, uh, if you hadn't catch caught our first episode yet. I am Ben with my wonderful wife, Lacey.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Hello.

SPEAKER_06 0:57

Good to have you here at our home. We are joined with a wonderful couple, a duo. My oh. Dynamic Duo. Why the dynamic duo?

SPEAKER_02 1:10

I thought you were thinking of our names. Jeff and Sally.

SPEAKER_06 1:15

Sally. Jeff and Sally.

SPEAKER_02 1:17

Hello, Sabrina. Hey everyone.

SPEAKER_05 1:20

I'm Taylor.

SPEAKER_06 1:21

Formerly known as Jeff. Sabrina, formerly known as. Wow, I just forgot the name you made up.

SPEAKER_05 1:27

Okay, so quick aside as we're doing this intro. Andre and Jasmine, shout outs who go to our church. Recently, like recent in the last few months, found out that my legal first name is Robert. Oh boy. Freaked them out. They were like, wait, you've been lying to us this whole time.

SPEAKER_06 1:44

Hang on. We just found out your legal name is Robert. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

How does that make you feel like his name is Robert? Hi, Bob.

SPEAKER_06 1:53

Oh Bob and Sabrina. So good to have y'all here.

SPEAKER_05 1:59

You can you can call me Bob if you want, I guess. But don't do that. My dad is Bob. There's a bunch of Roberts in my family. Shoutouts to my dad. Hello, Dad.

SPEAKER_02 2:07

Sid's first name is also Robert. Robert Sidney Bane.

SPEAKER_05 2:11

And his father's first name was Robert Taylor. Mr. Bob is my father. That's right. Mr. Bob is my father, literally.

SPEAKER_06 2:18

And grandfather. And great grandfather.

SPEAKER_05 2:20

Yeah. No Jeff, no Jeff in there, but yeah, I'm Taylor.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

I did not know that. I feel like Sid shocked you more than Taylor.

SPEAKER_05 2:30

Yeah. Robert Sidney Sr., my grandfather.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

It it never dawned on me to ask, hey Sid, is that your name?

SPEAKER_05 2:36

Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

And can you guess what Sid's dad's name was? I'm guessing Robert. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:45

Is Sid short for Sydney? Yeah. Yeah. Robert Sidney?

SPEAKER_05 2:48

Robert Sidney Baines Sr.

SPEAKER_06 2:50

What a prestigious name. By the way, we're talking about Taylor's grandparents, those of you that have just met us, or all four of us, for the hopefully for the second time. That brings up something else that you you and I have been talking about doing another project that we're going to be doing soon, hopefully. This is the gateway to that. A project called Profiles in Faith, where we I'm calling it, we uh interview the more seasoned people that we know. Your grandparents have been very important to Lacey and me. Your grandparents, Sid, uh your grandfather Sid and your grandmother Miss Betty. I can't just call her Betty, but Miss Betty.

SPEAKER_05 3:30

I call her Gran.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

Oh, actually. They were friends at Palo Alto, and we just we adore them. We really do.

SPEAKER_05 3:40

They love y'all. They they we they we talk frequently with them, we meet with them.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

Well, and it's funny because before we ever really got to know you, they talked so highly of you both. Yeah. Said, oh, you'd be good friends with Ben and Lacey.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

They're so smart. And so they said the same thing to us about y'all. They were like, right when y'all were moving into town, she was like, I really want y'all to be friends.

SPEAKER_05 4:06

So I think this is like the beautiful backdrop of like what happens in church communities. Yeah. Which like just like to as like an overview for the people who are maybe listening who like don't know my grandparents, like everybody knows your grandparents. But like they, yeah, they just like help set the stage in so many ways for us being at this table tonight. And we are just yeah, we're again just grateful to be here, excited about episode two, thankful to be learning more about one another and shouting out people who we love.

SPEAKER_06 4:43

So we uh the four of us, like as far as couples go, uh we've we've felt kind of a natural connection with you guys.

unknown 4:51

Likewise.

SPEAKER_06 4:52

Yeah, so we and I consider us very good friends at this point. And so not to underwrite any of that, but Lacey's downplaying the pressure Miss Betty put on us. You be friends with them. She was very determined that we but she was right. I mean, because we're I feel like we're all peas in a pod here in a small group.

SPEAKER_02 5:15

But uh that doesn't surprise me. She can be very direct.

SPEAKER_06 5:21

Oh boy, do I know. I won't tell that story.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

She uh story for another day.

SPEAKER_06 5:26

I really saw my life flash before my eyes. But anyway.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

He found out the hard way. Don't make Miss Betty mad. Don't do it.

SPEAKER_05 5:34

See, I being her grandson, I feel like I've never I've I've like, I've just, I don't know. I've never seen like that full aspect of she's just she's a lovely, amazing human to me who just has all of the great grandmother qualities and just is so amazing. I I know that she can be spicy in her own way. I love you, Grandma.

SPEAKER_06 5:58

I I agree with that sentiment sentiment totally and completely with one caveat. And uh we went to dinner. I'm not gonna I won't tell the well, I'll just briefly. But we went to dinner, Lacey apparently already made an agreement with Miss Betty that they were going to pay or split the ticket or something like that. Well, Lacey, when um Lacey went to the restroom when the bill came out, and I'm sitting there with Sid and Betty and me and Sid have just been talking this whole time, it's been great. And I grabbed the check and I paid for it. And and Miss Betty finally realized, she's like, Did you pay for supper? Yeah. You shouldn't have done that. We had an agreement. And it's like, I I love Miss Betty. I don't want this to she is the sweetest, kindest thing, but the best thing I can liken it to is Lord of the Rings when he makes that face and reaches for the ring in in the first movie. Oh, Bilbo, right? Bilbo reaches and his whole face disorder. Oh, yeah. I was literally scared. I mean, shaking, scared. Yeah. And I because I thought at first, oh, she's just, you know, joking or whatever, but it's like, no, I really messed up. But this this also speaks to the sweet, kind-hearted lady that she is. She uh, because I think it was a Friday or Saturday night, she came to me Sunday morning. I felt so terrible. I overreacted. I'm so sorry. But you can't erase that image of Bilbo attacking you over the ring, you know, it's there.

SPEAKER_05 7:29

At 90 years old, she still can just turn it on you, you know. You want to stay in that.

SPEAKER_06 7:34

I will never cross that woman.

SPEAKER_05 7:36

Yeah, you want to stay in her good graces. Absolutely. And she and you want her praying for you, by the way. Yeah, I love those people. I I I'm fully convinced that without the prayers of the Jubilee generation, as we might call them, that things would fall apart pretty quickly. Yeah. Yes. I really think so.

SPEAKER_06 7:54

So you and I had this conversation recently about, you know, I love that verse where you're you never know when you're entertaining angels. So be hospitable to everyone. You know, and and I can up until that bellbo moment, I consider that's anyway. I've I'm on the nice as it is. All that to say is, yeah, stay tuned. We've got other projects in the works, one being Profiles and Faith.

SPEAKER_03 8:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 8:21

Talking about our, you know, people that we really look up to and and just to hear their full story. You know, we every congregation that you you you um are part of or any kind of group, you have those very pivotal people, uh influential people, but very rarely do you really get to grasp their full story of what made them them a little nervous in a way of you know, you don't want to see how sausage gets made, kind of thing. But at the same time, I'm dying to know the story behind some of these folks. But anyway, that's coming. Uh like last time, you know, you you if you have any questions that you want us to answer or talk about, or any questions that you just have that you you're looking for an answer, and you know, if we don't necessarily have to discuss it on the on the air, you send us a message. You can email us at goatg-o-a-t.bear b-e-a-r.lobster l-o-b s-t-e-r at gmail.com. And we'll just let us know if you want to be anonymous, want to be on the uh air, not on the air, or discuss the answer. Whatever. Just give us the the rules and we'll discuss it off there, give you an answer, or we'll talk about it here. Anyway, we appreciate you joining us tonight. We're gonna continue kind of where we left off last episode. You know, we started off kind of little icebreaker questions in a way that really ended up being more than that. I hope it revealed without us just being you know completely blunt and straightforward about who we are. We'll get, like I said last time, we'll we'll give some more well each person's gonna get an episode soon where devoted to their whole testimony, kind of a mini profiles and faith kind of thing. But I hope some of these questions have been a little bit revealing to let you kind of get to know us, who we are, and kind of where we're going. Uh and later on this episode we'll talk more about where we're going with later episodes. But to start us off tonight, that's right. Our question is what if I can find it. Uh I'm looking for it. Well, basically, we're talking about our favorite stories in the Bible. You know, last time we talked about favorite verses, favorite books, even those books that we find very challenging. Tonight we're just gonna back out a little bit and talk about stories, those pivotal moments in the Bible that mean so much to us. And I won't bogart the session tonight. So whoever wants to jump in, and then I I think Sabrina's chopping at the bit. Do we want to start with Sabrina or okay?

SPEAKER_02 11:13

I was hoping to hear from Lacey first, but I'll I'll go. Um and then maybe Lacey moved after me. But so this question, I feel like in this moment, the the story that stands out to me most is in the book of John. We were recently actually at Sin and Betty's Taylor's grandparents this week, and we were reading from John, and we read from chapter 21, and I am an emotional person, but I don't like being emotional in front of people. And this verse just kind of hit me emotionally in a surprising way. It hasn't in the past, and so I was really surprised by it. But I'll just go ahead and read it.

SPEAKER_06 11:57

Real quick, I'm sorry, what what what was it? What was the book?

SPEAKER_02 11:59

Yeah, it's John chapter 21, and the verses are 15 through 17, so just three verses, and the title that's at least in the N NASB 2020 version is the love question. And so it says, Now when they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, Simon, son of God, do you love me more than these? He said to him, Yes, Lord, you know that I love you. He said to him, Tin my lambs. He said to him again, a second time, Simon, son of John, do you love me? He said to him, Yes, Lord, you know that I love you. He said to him, Shepherd, my sheep. He said to him the third time, Simon, son of God, John, do you love me? Peter was hurt because he said to him the third time, Do you love me? And he said to him, Lord, you know all things, you know that I love you. Jesus said to him, Send my sheep. And obviously there is a pattern with asking Simon, Peter three times, Do you love me? And Peter denying Christ three times. And it just hit me pretty strongly because in pretty direct ways and indirect ways, I feel like I've failed Christ so much, like I've let him down. And I think it just shows God's grace, like he's showing a lot of mercy to Peter in this moment, giving him the opportunity to redeem himself by expressing his love for Jesus three times after, you know, not long ago Peter denied him three times. And so I think just like when you're thinking about the character of God, this story just reveals a really beautiful piece of God's character.

SPEAKER_04 14:05

Such a great, such a great moment.

SPEAKER_06 14:07

I can definitely see how that is you get emotional from that. I I definitely feel I I get what you're saying. There's like a sense of like the grace showing the grace of God. That's absolutely I also feel like a sense of relief on Peter's part because you can imagine the struggle. Yeah, didn't he was so sure, you know, when Christ says you'll deny me, he said, No, I won't. Like I am committed, I'm loyal, and and he's he's the one that drew his sword, right?

SPEAKER_02 14:39

Yeah, yeah. And that's kind of interesting because I think for me at least, when I'm learning about all the disciples, Peter would be the last person. If I didn't know the story, he'd be the last person that I would think would deny him three times because he had like he has this very intense loyalty. Like if we're thinking about the Enneagram, and this isn't you know biblical, but if I'm thinking about the Enneagram, Peter in my mind is an eight.

SPEAKER_06 15:07

That's that's a good yeah. That's a good uh account. Yeah, and I can't kind of go on extra biblical like you're talking about with the Enneagram. I also think because this will this will play a part in my story as well, uh, that I pick, but I can't um I kind of imagine Peter almost uh it doesn't say this, but uh you know, after that third time, you almost feel like Peter recognizes it. And then somebody's like I can almost feel the tears come to his eyes, yeah, or follow his face kind of thing. One little trivia point that I I came across with this story. I'm not really quite sure what to make of it just yet, but I'll throw it out there as far as something to think about and consider. So when he says we you know, in Greek, love, at least the the meaningful love when it's God is love, you know, what when Paul talks about what love is, it's patient, it's kind, and all that, it's always in that sense agape. I think most of us by now hear, you know, there's many words in Greek of of different types of love, Phileo love, Philadelphia love, brotherly love. Here, when Jesus asks him, I think it's the fur it's either it's one of the two. I'm I'm I'm gonna misremember this. So he asks three times, Peter, do you love me? It's either the first time he says agape, well he doesn't, so he's speaking Aramaic. That's you know, that's one thing to rem I have to remind myself the context. He's speaking Aramaic. John's account in Greek. The first time, the first question, he either says agape, and then the next two he says phileo and sub, or vice versa. I can't remember. But anyway, so he's actually he uses two words for love there, agape and phileo. And agape is that there's a lot to, you know, the Bible, the the New Testament does a lot unpacking agape love, the selfless, selfless love, you know, like in shorthand terms, the quick definition is it's love. That's what like the epitome of love. But phileo is more of affection, to have affection for. And it might sound like we're splitting hairs, but I think it's very there, I think there might be something there to kind of unpack. I don't know if y'all have looked into that more, but to love phileos to love, have affection for, be fond of. So it's fascinating that it's described two different ways there by John. I wish I knew what it was in Aramaic. Maybe you do, Taylor. Mr. Old Testament.

SPEAKER_05 17:53

No, no, no. I don't know about all that. I I'm looking now, you're right to point that out. I'm looking at it now. In the Greek, it is there is that difference in agape and phaleo. Love that is used. Both of those words appear, and it's the third time where it shifts.

SPEAKER_06 18:13

Um I was wrong on both accounts. So it's agape, agape, then phileo. I believe that's what I'm saying here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:24

Um I think the second part of this story that's interesting to me is he doesn't Jesus doesn't just ask, Do you love me? He ends it by saying, Tend my sheep, like take care of my my lamb. And so it's almost like you're forgiven now. Also go spread my gospel, like a call to action for us to not be weighed down by our shame or our sin and kind of recognize like what God has done for us and to not stop, you know, being on mission.

SPEAKER_06 19:03

Amen.

SPEAKER_05 19:05

Preach it. That's beautiful. A little bit after those verses in verse 19, he says, Follow me. Yeah. Which I you know, I think like that what you were saying earlier, Sabrina, about and and you mentioned too the cutting of Malchus's ear by Peter in the garden, in the Garden of Gethsemane. He uh has this like really uh intense, passionate desire to defend and prove himself, defend Jesus, prove himself as being uh worthy of discipleship, uh being chosen by God, called out by God. But but yeah, like what you're describing, like it's not just the like the obviously the love is key, right? And that like he's repeating that, but it is also that call to action and being on mission for God. I love that too.

SPEAKER_06 20:05

A call to action in maybe a different way than Peter realized. Like when in the garden, right? His call to action is to protect, physically protect Jesus, and then here Jesus is kind of directing him in that action. Like it's not necessarily drawing a sword and physically, but instead leading re-shifting that that focus of action.

SPEAKER_05 20:32

Yeah, and like in in that moment in the garden we're going into it. In that moment in the garden when Peter, James, and John were brought into the inner space, and Jesus is praying to his father. And he gives those three disciples very simple instructions just like keep watching pray. Yeah. He doesn't tell them pull out your sword and chop a guy's ear off, right? Love you, Peter. But maybe in the Aramaic he said that that wasn't the call to action here. And I I That's a great point. Yeah, and like it it reminds me that like our answer is so often that we should be just praying more. Right. We should be watchful and and prayerful. And we don't God doesn't need us to defend uh his character in the way that we often think we have to pull a sword out and defend it. Yeah. He kind of I think he's showing us that right. And he knows, right? Like he knows in that moment. He's like, Peter, you couldn't stay up for one hour in prayer. You fell asleep. I asked you to do one thing and it was to pray for an hour, and instead you fall asleep and you turn, you know, you're turning to violence. And it it shows us like that we are all so capable of in our ego forgetting what Christ is actually calling us to do.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

Well, and go ahead. Sorry.

SPEAKER_05 22:11

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

Um, I also love in that moment though, Jesus extends a little bit of grace to them because he says the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. Like he acknowledges, I know you want to, but I also know you're human.

SPEAKER_03 22:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

And and I think that he was acknowledging they still don't get it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 22:32

Exactly. That was a yeah, that was exactly what I was gonna say. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:36

That's a really good point. It's also like considering the entire context of that story. Like if we're if we're focusing in on Simon, Peter, he Jesus calls him out despite James and John being in that garden and falling asleep as well. But he's calling out Peter, and it makes me think like he knows, like Jesus knows what Peter is about to do that same night, which is to deny him three times.

SPEAKER_03 23:04

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:05

And then, you know, when he's resurrected, he asks specifically for Peter. And Siddha said this, Taylor's granddad, it's like he knows that Peter would have been hurting. So that's why he's like, let me see, you know, like bring me my disciple. So I just like I love that despite Peter denying him three times, Jesus just like appears to be hurting with him. Like, oh, you're hurting. I know that you're hurting. Like, let me offer you some grace. It's good.

SPEAKER_05 23:36

For people who are art-minded, I pulled up this image. This is obviously not a video.

SPEAKER_06 23:43

Hold it up so everyone can see. But it is I'll describe it for our visually challenged folks.

SPEAKER_05 23:49

Yeah, so there's this painting. It is in, and it goes off of what Sabrina and Lacey and Ben and I are talking about in this story of John chapter 21, post-resurrection, it kind of ties it all together. There's this painting. It's in the Musée d'Orsay, which is a famous art museum in Paris. And it's by Eugene Bernand, and he was a 1800s, late 1800s era Swiss artist. And he has this painting, and it's the title's a little lengthy, but it's the disciples, Peter and John running to the sepulchre on the morning of resurrection. If you're a fan of visual art, this might be a painting that you would enjoy looking up, just as a little shout-out. It's got just like this detailed image of John and Peter on the morning of the resurrection running to the tomb. And it kind of captures like what their faces might have looked like. And it's just beautiful. It's what it's like just this really amazing painting.

SPEAKER_06 24:54

If you ever have the chance to see it in person, more of an interpretive dance type of art. But no, that but yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_05 25:03

I like to like imagine like that.

SPEAKER_06 25:05

That looks like newer AI. That's very good.

SPEAKER_05 25:08

Yeah, like what would it be like to be Peter? It could be a tracing.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

Well, with that art, that piece of art that Taylor is talking about, if you zoom in on Peter's face, you can just see the pain and like the almost like I don't know how would you describe it, Taylor. Like his face.

SPEAKER_05 25:27

Like what you said. I mean, he's amazed. He's in so much pain for what he did.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:34

Right. And like I I I can I I can imagine like it would have been he he needed, like Lacey said, like his spirit was willing. And yet his flesh was unable to follow through on what he he desired. And I I we've all been in that moment.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

Well, and when Jesus predicted, when he said, You will deny me, and Peter's like, No, no, I never will. And I I think that he fully believed I never would. 100%. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 26:07

And I've been there. I can I can attest to that feeling too, where you feel like I will never do that, and then fall right into it. It's so much easier than we may realize.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 26:20

Going back to the point that you were also making earlier about you know, and when when Jesus says, you know, my my flesh is willing, my spirit's willing, but my flesh is weak, that kind of thing. And there's a I feel like there's another layer to it. It's like there's nothing new under the sun, right? And it's like all this is relatable, obviously. We we can feel it, but we see how much how often do we see it's in our culture today, where it's like we miss the forest for the trees, where Jesus is basically he's he's he's like you're saying, Taylor, he's he's saying, I need you to pray with me. I need you to be here in spirit. And and Peter's more focused on the physical nature of protecting and loving Jesus. And we see that today. One thing too, I we haven't really talked about yet this up this show, is these discussions is you know, I want us to be able to kind of branch out and talk, you know, like when you're at church, you hear like we don't talk about politics. There's certain things you don't talk about or whatever, but I want us to be able to kind of go there a little bit in these discussions, and it's like I I I can definitely see that in our political culture of how many people feel so quote unquote spiritually convicted to physically act, where it's like that's not necessarily I mean there don't get me wrong, there are times for and situations for it, but it's like we seem to be so quick to physically act that we we need to stop and and maybe just check ourselves on how are we acting spiritually? Are we praying with Jesus when he's in the Garden of Ghosts and he's so powerful when you see then the the Son of Man, you know, prostrate, pleading with God and all alone because his apostles just don't get it, because we don't get it. There's so much to be gained from that, but you know, it's we uh there's so much a personal spiritual level that we need to consider first before we draw that sword and chop off the year.

SPEAKER_02 28:31

Yeah, agreed.

SPEAKER_01 28:33

All right, Lacey's story.

SPEAKER_06 28:35

Sabrina's dying to know.

SPEAKER_01 28:37

Okay. So I have two, but I'm gonna make it fast. My first one is it's the Christmas story shocker. I I've always been, you know, big Christmas fan. I'm I'm totally like, you know, buddy the elf, like all things Christmas all the time. If my husband would let me, I would leave the tree up all the time. Just I love it.

SPEAKER_06 29:02

But trees attract squirrels.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

As a mom, now I really see through Mary's eyes. And one thing that I I didn't really think about until I became a mom is like Mary was all alone in that stable, you know, where you know, anybody else in that culture would have had an army around them, but she was all alone. But I think that that was a gift because Jesus's entire life was so public, and his his walk was so public, his ministry was so public. He constantly had multitudes around him, and then his death was so public. And so I really think that God said, you know what, I'm gonna give you just this minute to be a mom. And I just I I I love to think about that. But the other story that I have just fallen in love with since becoming a mom is Hannah's story and how she wanted a child so bad. And it said that the Lord had closed her womb. And and and it shows her just desperately praying, and and she is so desperate for a child that she she tells the Lord, if you give me a son, I'll give him right back to you. And it's not a foxhole prayer. Like it, it is, I I he she truly meant it. And she was faithful in that promise. When when the Lord did bless her with Samuel, she took him back and she gave him to the Lord. And and when you when you think about all the things that Samuel did from anointing Saul and anointing David and ministering to both the first kings of Israel and doing all of this, and it was all because a mom prayed.

SPEAKER_06 31:12

Yeah, and Conway 20 has a song about that. So um who pray for me, the mom was gone.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

But I also love okay, hang on. When she's praying, she says, Oh Lord, oh Lord of hosts, if you will indeed look on the afflection of your maidservant and remember me and not forget your maidservant, but will give your maidservant a male child, then I will give him to the Lord all the days of his life. And then, sorry, um, when when Samuel is born, she says, My heart rejoices in the Lord, my horn is exalted in the Lord, I smile at my enemies because I rejoice in your salvation, and that is just so amazing. But then the coolest part of the entire story to me. But wait, there's more, is she's blessed with more kids.

SPEAKER_03 32:13

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

Like, and it it was just because she was so faithful in that promise, the Lord continue to bless her over and over again.

SPEAKER_02 32:24

I love it. I also think that like it hits on a theme that we've been talking about, which is the power of prayer. And I I've never considered it that way, like, think about all the ways that God used Samuel to well, really to point back to Jesus through Saul and David, and it's all because of a woman praying. I love that. That gave me goosebumps.

SPEAKER_05 32:52

Or as Robbie Livingson would say, God bumps.

SPEAKER_06 32:56

Oh, Robbie. I had to throw it out there. We don't have enough time on this episode to talk about Robbie.

SPEAKER_02 33:01

We love you, Robbie.

SPEAKER_06 33:02

Well, we know you, Robbie. I do love Robbie. I love giving him a hard time. So I think I underestimated how emotional recalling these stories are. I mean, it only makes sense. We're gonna pick those stories that make us feel. But the ladies made it through. I thought they made it through. Uh I thought there was a couple of close calls for both of you, but you you both survived and made it through your your your answers.

SPEAKER_01 33:30

Meanwhile, the gals the guys are totally crying.

SPEAKER_06 33:33

The pressure's on, Taylor. I mean, I don't know, man. Now I I'm nervous because the one I got, I I it could go it could go bad for me. But go ahead, Taylor. Let's hear your story.

SPEAKER_05 33:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 33:49

Nobody's got the answer right, by the way. So let's see if Taylor can explain it.

SPEAKER_05 33:56

I was thinking a lot about this, yeah, before this episode. I've recently been really captivated by the story of Noah in the Bible. And I just love I love this idea that this is gonna sound crazy, but I love this idea that like somehow if ev like if everything was supposedly lost, like if humanity, if every single person, aside from a man and his family just went totally off the rails, that God is able to be fully in control, fully sovereign, and say, we're gonna redirect this man who loves me with his whole heart, his family and he and his family are gonna be obedient and gonna build this crazy boat and put all these animals on it, and we're gonna we're gonna find a way forward. I I I also think it's beautiful that in Hebrew Noah's name, Nuach, is rest. That there is this period of like rest that comes in obedience to the Lord, and that Noah's name itself points to restfulness after a long period of I think what biblically will be described as lawlessness. Turmoil. Turmoil. And that and that sometimes when we sometimes when we think about the state of the world around us, it's easy to find just despair everywhere. War, poverty, all the things that are difficult about human reality on a mass scale. People going in different directions away from God, us doing that in our own lives. And yet God's able to find this thread of faithfulness in the people that He calls to Himself, and through the story of the Bible we see that thread of faithfulness from beginning to end, and we find rest and hope in the future. That when the olive branch comes, the rainbow is revealed, a new covenant is created. I just I just I just love that story. And there's also another thing I would point to, there's this there's this passage in Isaiah chapter 54, where the prophet Isaiah points back to Noah and his story, and it really resonates, this this passage really resonates with me on a personal level in my own life, and I love what Isaiah writes.

SPEAKER_04 36:47

This is 54, beginning in verse 7, that the prophet Isaiah is hearing the words of God, and God says to Isaiah, For a brief moment I abandoned you, but with great compassion I will gather you.

SPEAKER_05 37:08

In an outburst of anger I hid my face from you for a moment, but with everlasting favor I will have compassion on you, says the Lord your Redeemer. For this is like the days of Noah to me, when I swore that the waters of Noah would not flood the earth again. So I have sworn that I will not be angry with you nor rebuke you. For the mountains may be moved, the hills may shake. My favor will not be removed from you, nor will my covenant of peace be shaken, says the Lord who has compassion on you.

SPEAKER_04 37:47

Yeah, Isaiah 50 54, 7 through 10. I just love that sequence.

SPEAKER_02 37:52

What does that mean to you, Taylor?

SPEAKER_05 37:56

Jesus. Jesus. It does yeah, I mean, I maybe this is jumping the gun on future episodes, but I've the gun. Yeah, I mean, like, I've definitely in my own life experienced that sense of having walked in my life in a way that felt distant from God and spent a period of my life prodigal sunning it, so to speak. Use a turniphrase. But you know, I had I I felt that sense of like I d you know, where's God? I've turned my back on him, but I don't feel his presence. I've you know, I felt like in my own life a deep resonance with this idea that now looking back, that God's love for me and his covenantal relationship that he has with his children that it was always there, and that and that there is peace and rest that comes in realizing that that the Lord is with us, that he you know, he may be in a moment distant and feel distant, but that he's called us according to his purposes, and that he's made covenant with us, and that we're loved by him. And that yeah, it does of course point to Jesus. And there's there's wal you know, baptism symmetry, oh yeah, imagery and symbolism in the story of note. It's just a really rich, beautiful story. So I love that one.

SPEAKER_06 39:34

It's like grappling with unworthiness is why it sounds like you're describing, and that's that's a tough one when you feel unworthy. Yeah, and I fall away from God, you feel separated from him, but you have to overcome that when you when that unworthiness feeling comes in, grappling with that, man. That's even when I feel close to God, I feel I still grapple with that.

SPEAKER_05 39:57

Oh yeah. And and Noah, I mean, right? Like he is so so to speak the last person who is like still God's like, I'm gonna use you. And he has his own struggles with sin, drunkenness, and shame that he experiences through his failures. But I just I just love the story of Noah. I don't know, that's great.

SPEAKER_01 40:20

Matthew did a study on Noah a couple years ago, and he was joking about he was like, I have no idea why we think that this is a kid's story. It is not a kid's story. Literally, everybody dies. Like, this is not yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 40:38

That and so I I have a a little theory, well, yeah, a little bit of a kind of a theory behind Noah too. Especially because, like, to that point, you know, we the kids version, everybody gets on the boat, everybody's saved, and there's a rainbow at the end. But wait, there's more. The rest of the story, which is it seems like it's thrown in there haphazardly, and it's like, why ruin such a beautiful story, you know, with what Noah does afterward and all of that. You you can't help maybe sometimes wonder like why is that in even in there? What purpose does that serve? I have a theory for that. And if anything, to me, it shows Moses' imperfection, his humanity. Noah's say Noah.

SPEAKER_01 41:29

You said Moses.

SPEAKER_06 41:30

Did I say Moses? Moses built the ark, right? Sorry, Noah. Yeah, so no, it shows Noah's imperfection because when you read that story from the beginning to the rainbow, Noah kind of comes across as almost uh almost perfect. There's not a lot of imperfection there, but we know that Christ is the only one that is perfect. So at least it it does kind of reinforce that when you know, fast forward through the New Testament, and and here we are lowly Gentiles making sense of it. It makes sense in hindsight. So if anything to me, it at least does show that about Noah. Now I'm second guessing.

SPEAKER_02 42:10

Just for everyone's reference, it's almost 11 p.m. So it's okay, then party, party about messing up the names.

SPEAKER_05 42:19

I think too, yeah, absolutely, the fallibility of Noah. And also in that story, I see a warning for us. Yes. Where in this moment of nakedness and drunken stupor, he has three sons. And Ham, Japheth, and Shem, is that right? Ham always makes me hungry. So point being, two of his sons are preserving Noah's dignity by walking in backwards, not looking at their father in this state of sin and fallenness. And one of the sons makes a mockery of his dad and takes this moment of his father's weakness and makes it almost like not he's not gloating in it, but he Yeah. He sees he sees his his dad. They all see their father in this moment of weakness, and and yet there's a way, I guess what I'm saying is like there's a way that we approach or should, I think the Bible's showing us there's a way we should approach other people's struggles. Yeah. And it's not look at me gloating that I didn't do that. It's not look at me, I am laughing at this person and their weakness. It's not, you know, I'm somehow above them. It should be like when we find each other in moments of weakness or sin or fallenness. I think that the story is pointing us to this idea that like that's that's God and that person's relationship and struggle that they're in with, you know, wrestling. With their fallenness. We should be humble. We should not look at them and think I'm better than them. We should not look at them and think I would never do that. Unless they're Auburn fans. I think there's there's just a powerful lesson there to be learned and in the way that we approach individuals who are struggling. And God sees it and in his sons, and the story kind of flows from there in terms of like which of his sons are blessed and seen and good by God in other words.

SPEAKER_02 44:37

Like a big consequence for one of his sons not showing mercy on his dad.

SPEAKER_05 44:42

Right.

SPEAKER_02 44:43

And making mockery of someone else's sin.

SPEAKER_05 44:46

Yeah. So I just I think that's a powerful point.

SPEAKER_06 44:49

And it echoes Peter a little bit because even Noah, you think Noah obeyed God, built this crazy boat to quote Taylor. That's right. Crazy boat. He saw the whole earth flooded. And he still fell. He still fell, you know, was tempted and fell away. You know, Peter was so convicted and determined, and he still missed the mark. He still didn't quite fully understood. Now, and going back to Sabrina's story, like after Jesus asked him three times, and then that he gets that redemption kind of arc in that story. You know, I think he comes to realize so there's there's good to be gained from that, you know, falling short, missing the mark. That was a good one. That's a good one.

SPEAKER_01 45:39

Well, that's all the time that we have tonight. So tune in. I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_06 45:43

Well, the pressure's on. Plus, I got the hint. Sabrina reminded me what time it is. So I'm gonna make this quick.

SPEAKER_02 45:50

That's what it sounded like, but I was trying to stick up for you for saying. No, no, no. I will I'll talk about all night.

SPEAKER_05 46:03

One other thing I would say. No, your time's up. Sorry. So that moment where it's Genesis 9, where Ham sees his father's nakedness, drunkenness. It says When Noah awoke from his wine, he knew that his youngest knew what his youngest son had done to him, so he said, Cursed be Canaan. A servant of servants, he shall be to his brothers. And he goes on to say, blessed blessed be the Lord, the God of Shem, may God enlarge shape it. So you know, it it shows how I think also relationships in families can be really torn. And not just in families, but like in among friends, among people that we're doing community with can be torn when we approach each other in those moments of weakness in a way that's gloating or prideful or better than yeah. Just to tie it back in, I I just want to read that verse a little bit where you know two of them walk backwards and cover their father's nakedness and the other doesn't.

SPEAKER_06 47:16

That's just powerful. And the gloating and the gloating thing that you're talking about, you know, the bet better than thou kind of attitude is man, that's a tough one too. Because a lot of times, and I'm talking to myself, I'm talking about myself here, is like I'm doing it and not realizing it. It's so easy to see it in other people. It's so hard to see when you're doing it yourself and being honest with yourself to do anything about it.

SPEAKER_05 47:43

Well, what about you, Ben? What's your what's your story that you want to hear? Jesus. Jeez.

SPEAKER_06 47:50

No. So it was kind of close. It was close. Sabrina's it was very close. Uh, Garden of Gethsemane is a big one for me. It means so much to me. We already kind of covered that one. So uh I'm gonna go with Moses, who built the real ark. So Moses' story to me that contains one of the most beautiful moments in the Bible, to me. I mean, the pressure's gonna be on now, because you didn't break. I'm usually pretty good with this one. I think I can get through it.

SPEAKER_03 48:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 48:24

So, like, Moses' story is so like he lived 120 years, and when you try to read his story front to back, it almost takes what it feels like 120 years. Like so much of his life is documented. So when you go through his story, you really start to feel it, you know, from from his birth to you know, and being put in the the Ark. Isn't it the same word? Ark?

SPEAKER_05 48:53

Oh, you're talking about the Hebrew words?

SPEAKER_06 48:55

It is the same word who's laughing now, ladies. Yeah, I think I want that one. Anyway, so yeah, so you're there at his his you know, very hectic birth in that in that what everything going on, growing up in this you know, royal family as a foreigner, and then uh running for his life, being exiled, and then you know, come God appears to him, he comes back, he he leads the Israelites out of Egypt. And that whole process from leaving Egypt into the wilderness, man, it goes on and on, and it's just turmoil after turmoil, to one point where his father-in-law, Jethro, comes to him and is like, these people are killing you. You need to put people in place to help you. And it's like I feel that. I almost feel relief that Jethro is finally coming to him and giving him offering him help and suggestions. So the but you when you're reading it, it's like you really start to feel that just exhaustion. And then all the way to the Deuteronomy chapter 34, it's 12 verses, but it's one of the most beautiful moments when run red in context, when you've gone through this whole 120 years with Moses, all the way that it starts in Genesis, right? Well, his no, he starts in Exodus. Right, okay. Yeah, he starts his story. Here we are, chapter 34, the final day of of Moses. Man. Moses and Noah mixed up so much now. So the final day of no of Moses. Not a whole lot there, but when you read it in context, you've you've been with Moses this whole time. One thing I skipped too is you know, he doesn't get to go into the promised land because he disobeyed God. And instead, he is taken up on the mountain. I believe I believe it's Sinai, right? Is it Sinai? It's I know they call it Moab. Is it land of Moab? Mount Nebo, sorry. To the top of Piscah. But here you are on the mountain. So he he's led him out of Egypt, gone through all the wilderness, the falling short, the the idols, and now he's delivered the people into the promised land, but he doesn't get to go in. Instead, he's on the mountaintop with God. God has been there through this whole story the whole time, leading him, pushing him, guiding him, even to the point that Moses, you know, there's I think we mentioned in the last episode where it's one of those very difficult moments in scripture where Moses reminds God not to destroy the people and start over with Moses. So there's this close kinship between relationship between him and God. And there they are at the mountain, sitting on top of the mountain, after this 120 years, this long life walking together. And uh it's a like I said, it's a short chapter, not a whole lot's given. There's one dialogue given by God to Moses. Then the Lord uh starting verse four. Then the Lord said to him, This is the land which I swore to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, saying, I will give, I will give it to your descendants. I have let you see it with your eyes, but you will not go over there. That's really the only dialogue we get. But I cannot help again. This is extra contextual. I can't help but sit but just think about two old friends sitting there together, not just friends. I feel like friends degrades it a little bit. There's so much reverence with God, but God's been there watching over Moses, guiding Moses, and they're I just part of me wants to think they're sharing some jokes. Like, hey, remember that time when you when you hit that rock. When you hit the rock, that was hilarious. What I tell you, and what because like I I can't help but think about my grandfather, both my grandfathers, but my dad's dad in particular, he was my last grandparent to pass away, you know, just seven years ago now. And but he was so close and such a big part of our whole family. Uh he was the patriarch. And you know, he had a we had a relationship where I know he loved me. I I loved him, I hope he knows how much I loved him, love him, to the point that I can still hear his voice in my head, you know, he resonates so much. But we had this kind of he'll pick on me, he'll tease me, hey, he'll he'll never let me forget kind of thing. Like, hey, remember we yeah, I remember. But I I can't help but kind of imagine or or kind of transpose that relationship to this one with Moses and God of hey, remember when you hit that rock. Wasn't that a good idea?

SPEAKER_01 54:09

Well, remember when you walked across dry land, like when I parted the sea, like remember those plays?

SPEAKER_06 54:17

Remember the look on those guys' faces? Yeah, that was colors. I know this is all extra contextual, but it's just like that relationship, you know, it's just and if you ask me, Moses got the better end of the deal. I'm not advocating disobedience, yeah, but if I had to choose between going into the promise with those people after everything we've read about them complaining about this and that, you know, we want quail. We're sick of man of give us quail, and we're sick of quail, you know. I and I'm I say these people, people in general, you still see that same mindset today everywhere. But it's like I would much rather sit there at the top of the mountain with God, looking back on our on my life, and uh just reflecting as old friends.

unknown 55:03

Yeah, that's beautiful. I love that.

SPEAKER_06 55:05

And we we see it too. We see you can see it in every congregation. Ours especially, you know, we've got older men going back to prayer, like Sabrina talked about, you know, Billy Tolson is one that we that comes up a lot whenever he gets to pray. I feel like we're witnessing an that mountaintop moment every time, you know, an old relationship. I feel like Billy Tolson, of anybody I know, he's one that could sit there and joke around with God over all of the shortcomings. Remember when I screwed up? Yeah, I remember that. Like they had that kind of I get that feeling when I hear him pray.

SPEAKER_02 55:44

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_05 55:45

I I've I wonder sometimes in the Moses discussion, I've wondered about Psalm 90 and which is Moses' prayer. Like when he prayed that prayer. And I I think it the Bible doesn't say, but I wonder if it was about that same time around that time, right?

SPEAKER_06 56:11

It seems like he does have a well it's the song of Moses, I think, is opened up, but that's what from the Israelites, right? This is how that's how Joshua opens, I think.

SPEAKER_05 56:21

Yeah, this is Psalm 90. To my knowledge, it's the only psalm attributed to Moses. But there's this moment where he literally says in this in this psalm, he says, As for the days of our lives, they contain seventy years, or if due to strength, eighty years. Yet their pride is only trouble and tragedy. That was just our dog. I apologize. Go ahead. Their pride is only trouble and tragedy, for it passes quickly and we disappear. That's Psalm 90, verse 10. And he like he's describing a long life being seventy or eighty years, and in this moment that you're pointing to here in Deuteronomy, he's 120, right? Like God has blessed him in these amazing ways with this really long life. This uh leadership role, this relationship that's so deep, and his, like you said, spanned multiple books of the Bible. He is this is just a paragon of faith and leadership and faithfulness in spite of his shortcomings. And I just I've often thought like, where was Moses when he prayed that prayer? Maybe it was you know, right around when he was about to be reunited with God forever, his life. I don't know. It's it doesn't say, but I I I love that psalm, and that's a great story.

SPEAKER_06 57:50

Speaking even more to that relationship between Moses and God, it's that that chapter continues on, you know, that after that dialogue from from God, it just it sums it up, you know. So Moses, the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab in accordance with the word of the Lord. And this, I this is so I've there's a lot of theory and interesting discussion over this, but something that we often forget is that and he, God, buried Moses in the valley of the land of Moab. Like God buried him himself. Now I get there's a lot of theory there as far as God's hiding the body, you know. I I've heard theories like, you know, because he didn't want the body to be, I don't know, mis abused or misused or whatever. But just the thought of God burying him himself shows not just not you know, we see the the the rise and fall over and over again by Moses uh being a man, but we also get a glimpse into God's love for Moses right there, even deeper.

SPEAKER_05 59:06

So and I think that's a theme that we're seeing in all these stories which we've picked out. Right? I mean starting with the story of Peter, Jesus, Hannah. Right, the story of Hannah, faithfulness and like that love and mercy that he's showing. Yeah. Like to Noah, of course, making that covenant to Moses. There's just like such a beautiful theme of like how we've all picked out stories where God is like showing us even though the ending that we quote unquote we see in our lifetime may not be what we expected, it may be even better or like more gracious or more incredible than in whatever we could have imagined. You know, Peter didn't think he was gonna, he was like, I'm never gonna betray you, and yet, you know, Hannah didn't think that she would see herself to have be blessed with children, and yet, you know, Noah's thinking, really, like, you know, can I actually build this crazy boat? And you know, I I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:14

It's just yeah, it's just no, I was thinking the same thing. It's because we didn't go over our answers before this, like we're hearing them from the first time now, but and none of us chose the the same one. I I Gethsemane's a big one, but I'd plan to go with Moses anyway. But so we came close there, but we all pick different stories, but I think that in itself says a lot about the Bible that we each have a different like pivotal story of the Bible that it's different and means something, but you're right, they all kind of point the same way and they all have very similar, you know, stories, motivations to them.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:57

Yeah, I feel like God is surprising his people with how good and faithful he is constantly.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:04

That's true.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:06

But who got it right? You tell us, send us a message. Goat.bear.lobster at gmail.com or just message us. Which story did you like, or did you have a different one? As we wrap this up, again, I I get the hint, Sabrina. I'm wrapping the glass.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:23

I promise. That's not that wasn't my intent.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:30

That seems to be my go-to button for this episode. We're gonna we're gonna start wrapping it up, but quickly kind of go over some lingering any lingering questions that you have that you want to explore in future episodes. And that's another thing about a lot of this is gonna be candid, kind of like tonight. We kind of came in and just gave our answers. Some of this is gonna be candid as far as I don't know. Like, I have this question, I'm not sure about it. Let's let's talk about it. So, any lingering questions, any anything about the Bible that you've always kind of been curious about?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:05

Dinosaurs.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:07

That's a good one. It's a very good one. Dino episode. Did Jesus ride a raptor or was it Stanosaurus? I've seen different depictions.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:20

But I I really want to there's a lot of questions that I have, but discerning God's will and his purpose. I want to dive deep into that, but also why do I believe what I believe? Like I know that God is good, but if you came up to me and asked me, like, would I be able to give you an answer and you know why I believe that that he is good? And also I love, I I I want to talk about like the practical, tangible sides of Christianity and our beliefs. And I feel like Matthew has done a really great job with when like he he doesn't just give a sermon, he gives like step by step trying, you know, try to focus on this this week.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:13

By the way, Matthew, our preacher, I know we've mentioned a few times, I just doubled down on that one.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:19

But there are some things that like do everything with love. Well, what does that mean? Yeah. And so there just questions like that that's good. I would love to dive deeper into.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:33

We were talking about this question. I would say prayer practices. I think that for me personally, this last year I, you know, influenced by Taylor, have really like dived deeper into prayer, and sometimes my prayer looks different depending on the day. You know, sometimes it's reciting psalms when I feel like praying feels like a lot of effort. So I'd love to hear everyone's prayer practice. So I think that is just like a really good practical I don't know, thing to discuss with our faith.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:19

By the way, to that topic, my brother, I think I mentioned it last last episode. My brother did his church his the congregation he worships up worships with up in North Alabama. He's for the youth group or something like that. They he he put together a podcast called Gather Around Tabletop. So if you want to look that up, and it was all about uh he did interviews with different people. He interviewed Lacey, interviewed me, interviewed my nieces, which was really cool to hear each one of their takes on you know what does prayer mean to you and all of that. That's a good one to look up to. He was a big inspiration as to kind of the idea of hey, that's a that's a great idea to kind of bring in a podcast to this this type of discussion. So but yeah, we definitely we I think that's I mean, he did like 10, 12, 11, 12 episodes on prayer, and I feel like there's still so much left to talk about, and that's a great one.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:20

Yeah, I love that too. I uh we were listening to a man in a in a a video recently at an what this alpha class that we've been hosting. Yeah. At our church at Palo Alto. And in the video he said that he is convicted that the most important thing we do in this life is pray. And I that really hit home with me. But you know, I I I like that idea as a topic. I was also thinking about About this is maybe like hyper specific, but I kind of would love at some point to do an episode on Ephesians. I have been like really struck by Ephesians to bring it back full circle to the beginning of this episode. My grandmother, Betty, her her favorite passage of the Bible is in Ephesians chapter three. It's just such a great book. And I think like maybe that being a model for like it's some points down the road, lingering, just like do a bit of a deep dive into like a book or even a chapter, kind of like focused on do y'all want to do Romans? You know, whatever it may be. Do y'all want to do Romans?

SPEAKER_06 1:06:48

Romans. Y'all just got done with a four weeks study on uh the first eight chapters, right? Of Romans. And I could tell you guys put a lot of work into that. I loved it.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:01

It was really helpful for both of us, I think.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:04

Yeah, very powerful book. But yeah, that idea of like maybe doing some like scriptural deep dive.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:10

Something other than Romans is what I'm hearing. Ephesians, there's a there's some very important things in Ephesians. Oh yeah. Then uh yeah, we can definitely do we'll do a series like that, you know, dissecting Ephesians and what other whatever other books I want to talk about.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:31

No, it's all great stuff. One thing I do want to kind of get into at one point at some point is, and I tender you and I have kind of discussed this a little bit. And I want to try light, because I don't want to like over-generalize and over-speculate or anything like that. But I and I'm sure some maybe some of you that are listening have heard and seen two you know videos popping up on social media of of certain preachers or or Bible quote unquote Bible scholars making some outlandish claims, you know, specifically geared towards almost downplaying the divinity of Jesus, the life of Jesus, different things like that.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:17

What is that like defending the faith kind of thing? Is that what you're describing?

SPEAKER_06 1:08:22

I mean, I mean we could look at it that way. I I just feel like there's a there's a rise in it. I'm seeing more and more guys and and the same characters coming up again and again to becoming almost like uh leaders in this kind of push or whatever it is, you know, just this there's some things that are being said that that are very concerning and and they almost seem to I I I feel a little threatened by them as far as like they're just kind of degrading some of the scriptures, and and I think we should be very cautious. And but I and I'm not like saying we need to look at them and dissect them and point out where they're wrong. I just feel like it's probably good that we look at them and what are they saying? What are they really saying? Is it something to be scared of, or is it something we need to be alert for? You know, stuff like that. Not judgmental necessarily, but just I think it it's sometimes it's important to look around and see what others are saying and you know, is there value to it, is there not, and making you know, some discernment there.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:30

So just one example. We saw a video of a preacher who did a whole sermon about Jesus was sinful and that's why he got baptized. Yeah. It's like no that uh and we we've seen a couple of videos where you know preachers have made statements where it kind of makes you think, but when they make a claim like that that even Jesus sinned, it's like no, no, no. And so that that's one of the examples that's right.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:06

When it does when they make claims like that that goes straight to the character of Christ on earth, I think is that's where I really get alert. Then there's other videos like I kind of mentioned earlier, you know, fun, almost well, I'll say fun, some of them where it's like theories of speculations on why did mo why did God bury Moses? You know, was it to do this and whatever, and you know, other theories about Noah's Ark, all kinds of stuff. I mean, there's some s there's some more fun way uh approaches uh topics like that we can we can also cover. But I think there's I I just can't help but feel there's something going on because it just seems to me to be on the rise, kind of like like Lacey was just talking about more of that. And I'm not saying it's a certain group or whatever, but I just we and um and I'm not gonna try to sit here and and say this is what they're saying. I say we you know if we look at the videos, we see what we listen for ourselves, what are they saying, and and let's discuss it.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:05

And and oh that'd be interesting.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:09

Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:11

I mean the first thing that comes to mind again is like as like just a internally, like what do I do with that when I experience those moments? Just as a as an aside to what you're describing, yeah, and considering that as like a future episode topic. You don't have to pull the sword. Right, exactly. Like I always feel that struggle too, of like when someone says something that's clearly uh unbiblical that contradicts uh other uh parts of scripture, Jesus' sinlessness being an example the virginity of Mary, these core truths almost like uh Nicene Creed level, like deep truths that like quote unquote the uh Christian orthodoxy as like described in just like well, here are the core tenets of the faith that have been agreed upon when we feel that people are attacking those core truths, yeah, from the outside. I guess like my first thing is like internally, what is my response? Yeah, and it shouldn't be the sword, it should be I gotta pray for those people really hard. Yeah, absolutely for myself that I hear and discern the voices that are true and I have to act out in the world in a way that Jesus would act. Absolutely. You know, I found myself like in a moment of sword pulling, so to speak, this last fall, where I was around a group of people, those people were disparaging the Lord in a very surprising way. People that I know and care about, and I love them to death. But I found myself being like angry and upset and verbally being like you know, getting like literally like angry with them and be like, don't, you know, how dare you speak that way. You know, like but that's not the right response. That's pulling the sword. I should have said in that moment, Lord, please have mercy on them. Please have mercy on me. Please help me to approach them in a way that shows you shows them your character, and that's not cutting Malchus' ear off. It's not cursing at someone who's cursing the Lord. It's it's saying I will I will get down and wash their feet. If that if that's what I need to do, like I show them the the mercy of the Lord as He's shown it to me because I've been in that exact same position that they're in. Right. Blaspheming the Lord's name, doing things that are not Christ-like, taking biblical truths and distorting them. Like we're all capable of doing that. We all have blind spots, and it's a little different when you're talking about people in positions of power with social media accounts, projecting things that are well unbiblical.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:05

It's easy too when you're looking at just a few seconds of a clip.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:09

Right.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:09

And and that's another thing is like I don't want to misrepresent people by just looking at this four seconds of a 40-minute cut you know talk. But but no, I th that's the best way to put it. I and that was one thing I wanted to be clear. I'm not looking to make a judgment on those people, I'm looking to see, you know, let's let's see what they're saying, because like it does feel challenging like you're talking about. And let's let's navigate it, and and how do we navigate it in a a way like Christ, to be more like Christ, but also with our own flawed understanding. But you bring up two key things, and it points to Sabrina's topic about prayer. That to me is one of the main one of a big thing about prayer is praying for those people you disagree with, those people you talk about drawing the sword. I'm very guilty of uh I try so hard not to draw the sword, but when someone else draws the sword, I was so quick to draw mine. R you know, I'll react really quick.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:09

And we should remember too that in that story when the guards approach Jesus to arrest him in the moment before the kiss of Judas, when Jesus speaks for the first time and says, It's me, I'm the one you're looking for, the guards are astonished and fall back. They are overwhelmed by his presence, and when we show other people that we're walking in the Lord's presence, that he walks with us, that his Holy Spirit moves through us into the world around us, that we when we shine that light, we don't have to really ultimately worry about the reaction of the person on the other end because one, we know the Lord loves them and desires them to repent and know him. And two, we know that he in his love and his mercy will be in control and sovereign over whatever our fallible like small perception is that he he's in control of it. Right. And you know, even in that moment where he's about to be kissed on the cheek, he's he's in control.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:23

Ladies, your job is to pull us back when we go when we get going.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:27

But no, uh that'd be a great conversation topic.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:30

Absolutely. Don't worry, your message is received. We're wrapping this up. Just four more questions. No way. Oh my goodness. We're losing Sabrina, guys. So that's not losing your wife. Okay. That's even worse. I'm losing my wife.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:48

That's right. Get a lacey.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:50

Well what a phenomenal conversation, especially hearing y'all's favorite stories. I think that that speaks and says a lot about you guys individually. And I just appreciate you sharing it. And I didn't break. My wife was betting on it, but I didn't. Um again, guys, thanks for joining us. We really appreciate uh you taking the time to listen to us. Uh, if you have any questions, uh concerns, um, you want to send us any kind of topics to discuss, you can message us or send us uh email at goat.bear.com. Uh, until next time, guys, thanks for joining us.